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[reporterpenguin]

12 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

During the day so shows these people have no ****ing work to go too  

Because all the foreigners have come over here and taken their jobs init /s

[StanSP]

4 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

They are on X.  Am I ok to post them here or will that create more problems?  I am not too sure at the moment.

 

I think that the rhetoric has been expanded to beyond what it was and yes, on both sides there has been a certain amount of rabble rousing. It is easy to reword a statement and hang someone out to dry like the mainstream media have done to Tommy Robinson but will not have him on their channel to have a right of reply.  That is not democracy.

 

I think dividing of communities has been allowed to happen for the past x amount of generations.  Tensions between rival religions have been simmering for a number of years in the North especially.  They were already divided.

I don't see the issue in posting them, but then I'm not the one to decide!! 

 

With all due respect, they're not obligated to offer a right of reply. It's perhaps not in their best interests to, either, considering he's not in a position of political power. 

 

Yes, division has been around for centuries. But while you have religious community leaders (not just Muslim ones) offering their hand for peace and allowing people in to their mosques or gurdwaras or mandirs or any other community space on one side, you have people/rioters (racists?) smashing the same places up purely because they're not white British. So they've extending the divide.

 

I saw a picture on BBC news last night where a imam (?) was handshaking a white male - if anyone has it I'd love to know more of that and the context of that particular moment. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

22 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

The BBC have called it a demonstration.  At no point have they described the disgraceful scenes in Birmingam as a riot, thugs, racists etc.  Why do they lie and not tell the truth as to what happened.  Let me rephrase then.  Why is one a demonstration and the other a riot except for one not having riot shield toting police.  Which one was that?  Can you guess?

The BBC have also referred to it as “violent disorder”. Other we’ll know news outlets have repeatedly criticised the actions. As have the majority of the Muslim community. 

 

The Muslim community are unfairly criticised for not speaking up when something is done in their name. 
 

On this occasion, they’ve had nationwide mosques criticising masking up, gathering in groups, warning against partaking and visiting those affected. Yet, you want to criticise them for that as well - damn if they do, damn if they don’t. 
 

The reality is, the thugs from the far right causing carnage are the majority. A bit of whataboutism is not going to change that. You’ve had well know white supremacy individuals calling for white men to “stand up” for so long. This week alone you’ve had guys like Fox calling on “eradication”. 
 

I’ll criticise the Birmingham acts but commend the mosques, imams, MCB and various others who have spoken out. No justification. 
 

In the same way, I’ll criticise and condemn the burning down of a citizen advice bureau and attacking (or proposing to) attack my colleagues who specialise in immigration law. 
 

For clarity, out of the two groups causing the issues, there are no victims or justification, it’s the innocent “non whites” (because it is non whites - see Middlesbrough video where the animals are asking “you English”) and the normal everyone else who are and will suffer because of this. 

[Basildon Fox]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Not going to overly debate this but ‘that have targeted thousands and thousands of western and Sikh girls to groom, drug, abuse, rape and sometimes murder’.

 

do you have evidence of these numbers?   And why introduce Sikh girls.  Are Muslim men not interested in grooming Hindu girls?   How racist they must be! 
 

the Birmingham stuff the other night - how many white people were actually attacked?  And those few who were - do you know what they might have done to elicit that ?   there is no excuse for those who committed violence and they must be brought to justice but there really isn’t equivalence at this time.  

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2022/07/12/depraved-brothers-led-telford-paedophile-ring-that-groomed-and-prostituted-young-girls/

 

1000 girls in just one case.  I could go on but need to get some work done.  I can only write what has been written with regards to ethnicity and religion of the girls targeted.

 

The last sentence just completely baffles me.  It is exactly the equivalent.  Both disgraceful and should be condemned.  Do not be foolish to think that one is worse than the other.

[Footballwipe]

53 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

Why have my posts been taken down?  Why is it ok to call anybody who disagrees with the shouty lefties on here a racist?  Why is it ok to villify people with no actual fact to back it up like?

 

Snip for whataboutery

Do you not think there is an enormous hypocrisy in your post talking about "shouty leftists" when you're annoyed at people being labelled as a racist with a broad brushstroke? Can you not see you're doing exactly what you think is happening to you?

 

I suspect the reason that everyone is condemning the riots and the racism is that there have been people using three dead children as an excuse to loot various high street shops, cause terror to normal everyday non-white folk and call for the burning of places housing asylum seekers. All of this stoked by various right-wing individuals of differing degrees of position, power and authority.

 

The incident in Birmingham, which was covered by the media, is an isolated incident but has also gained coverage. It won't make headline news on bulletins or front pages, because it's one incident. Across the country in the last week we've seen racists goading the police, attacking non-white people, looting shops and causing carnage. That is a huge issue for many reasons and is being covered as such.

 

I don't think there's anything hugely wrong in talking about the lack of integration in some towns, I suspect anyone saying there aren't immigrants who haven't integrated is lying. It should also be acknowledged that the many, many British people who go and live abroad without any integration, including the language, also highlights this isn't.

 

You claim not to have been on Tommy marches but you've done an awful lot of Tommy defending on here. You claim not to be a racist but Tommy Robinson is an overt racist with extreme views. Defending him is quite the hill. If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, ACF said:

I know you’re making an incredibly rational point but want to challenge this one part.

Are they? 
 

Or is it the consequence of austerity and government waste, lack of functioning government, Britain’s participation in wars that alter the lives of innocent people, and falling living standards whilst corps get richer and richer? 

It’s very easy to punch down and blame immigration levels, without the nuance of saying “the social contract between government and population has been been destroyed meaning we can’t help those who need it, like food for children”.

Like Brexit, the views of immigration are very split by age (much more so than they are by class) accord to virtually all polls - it was by far the biggest age split at the last election, and like Brexit, because of population ageing, it ends up with politicians pandering to and legitimising the view of pensioners. Immigration was considered the biggest issue amongst 65+ last election but a minor issue amongst under 50s, you can just as easily argue this is because older people don’t want to take responsibility that it was their generation voting in Thatcher, privatisation, stopping public funds in building houses and hoovering up the houses to own several homes, turning them into houses of multiple occupancy and renting them out at extortionate prices who broke the housing market, not immigrants, and that immigrants are an easy scapegoat to these problems they’ve created. But that’s just one viewpoint.

 

Older politicians might claim this is young working class people annoyed at immigration, but almost all polls show younger people are mostly pro-immigration and it’s the over 50s (I.e. the vast majority of politician fanning the flames who are the ones overwhelmingly anti-immigration). Make of that what you will.

 

Edited 7 August by Sampson

[Basildon Fox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

I don't see the issue in posting them, but then I'm not the one to decide!! 

 

With all due respect, they're not obligated to offer a right of reply. It's perhaps not in their best interests to, either, considering he's not in a position of political power. 

 

Yes, division has been around for centuries. But while you have religious community leaders (not just Muslim ones) offering their hand for peace and allowing people in to their mosques or gurdwaras or mandirs or any other community space on one side, you have people/rioters (racists?) smashing the same places up purely because they're not white British. So they've extending the divide.

 

I saw a picture on BBC news last night where a imam (?) was handshaking a white male - if anyone has it I'd love to know more of that and the context of that particular moment. 

But not the video where there are dozens of muslims in Birmingham swarming on a white male and beating, stamping and kicking him.  That is the problem.  If you do not report all facts and just use an agenda against one side then you will have disenchantment, annoyance and a feeling of injustice.

 

 

 

[Wymsey]

Guy got banned?..

 

Edit: No..

Edited 7 August by Wymsey

[ACF]

12 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

Because all the foreigners have come over here and taken their jobs init /s

The same foreigners who are coming over on benefits AND taking all the jobs

[Basildon Fox]

7 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

Do you not think there is an enormous hypocrisy in your post talking about "shouty leftists" when you're annoyed at people being labelled as a racist with a broad brushstroke? Can you not see you're doing exactly what you think is happening to you?

 

I suspect the reason that everyone is condemning the riots and the racism is that there have been people using three dead children as an excuse to loot various high street shops, cause terror to normal everyday non-white folk and call for the burning of places housing asylum seekers. All of this stoked by various right-wing individuals of differing degrees of position, power and authority.

 

The incident in Birmingham, which was covered by the media, is an isolated incident but has also gained coverage. It won't make headline news on bulletins or front pages, because it's one incident. Across the country in the last week we've seen racists goading the police, attacking non-white people, looting shops and causing carnage. That is a huge issue for many reasons and is being covered as such.

 

I don't think there's anything hugely wrong in talking about the lack of integration in some towns, I suspect anyone saying there aren't immigrants who haven't integrated is lying. It should also be acknowledged that the many, many British people who go and live abroad without any integration, including the language, also highlights this isn't.

 

You claim not to have been on Tommy marches but you've done an awful lot of Tommy defending on here. You claim not to be a racist but Tommy Robinson is an overt racist with extreme views. Defending him is quite the hill. If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...

So how do you define racism?  Please look at that and then find proof of him actually being racist.  Is he islamaphobic? Well yes obviously. 

 

I am defending people who have a differing viewpoint to what is happening at this moment and the unfair reporting on what is happening is also a disgrace.  I am defending a right to be able to have a viewpoint and discussion on a message board.  You do not have to agree.  I am trying to go for a balanced viewpoint yet have to defend people who are being vilified.  They are looking in the wrong place to find the instigators of the thugs and the knuckle draggers who have rioted in the name of cause which I doubt they give 2 shites about.

[Basildon Fox]

23 minutes ago, Raj said:

You just needed to finish off with I'm not racist as i've got some brown mates!

And there we go.  Exactly what I mean.

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Like Brexit, the views of immigration are very split by age accord to virtually all polls - it was by far the biggest age split at the last election, and like Brexit, because of population ageing, it ends up with politicians pandering to and legitimising the view of pensioners. Immigration was considered the biggest issue amongst 65+ last election but a minor issue amongst under 50s, you can just as easily argue this is because older people don’t want to take responsibility that it was their generation voting in Thatcher, privatisation, stopping public funds in building houses and hoovering up the houses to own several homes, turning them into houses of multiple occupancy and renting them out at extortionate prices who broke the housing market, not immigrants, and that immigrants are an easy scapegoat to these problems they’ve created. But that’s just one viewpoint.

 

Older politicians might claim this is young working class people annoyed at immigration, but almost all polls show younger people are mostly pro-immigration and it’s the over 50s (I.e. the vast majority of politician fanning the flames who are the ones overwhelmingly anti-immigration). T

 

Maybe because older Britons are more likely to use/need the public services which are overrun for whatever reason and I'm sure there are many.

[davieG]

 

These were two consecutive posts on my Facebook page

 

Ahh at last - an amazing image tonight of what it really means to be proud to be British

 

 

Taking back his country...one Gingerbread man at a time.

[Tommy G]

49 minutes ago, StanSP said:

@Basildon Fox - the riots in each city have been condemned. I, for one, have condemned any violence from both sides. No one has skirted round it. It's not the solution and it's not okay to retaliate. Seen plenty of posts on here or social media condemning it too. If you search hard enough, you'll find it. It's not all rage and hatred. 

 

But I don't see you mentioning anything about Muslim communities asking for peace and harmony (of which there are many - you've gone straight into grooming gangs (there are also white ones too) and the riots they've hit back in. It's not the solution to fight violence with violence. It doesn't get anywhere and won't solve the issues. 

 

Can you surely understand though that the Muslim community MIGHT feel a bit aggrieved that they were blamed for something happening (the stabbing of the 3 girls) that wasn't even 'one of their own' doing it?! That came from disinformation!! They're bound to feel aggrieved but did you see what the Southport mosque leader did afterwards? He didn't retaliate, did he? He didn't go burning down churches or throwing petrol bombs around. How would you feel if your family got blamed for something that you didn't do? It'd be pretty fvcking shit wouldn't it? 

 

Fighting back can be done peacefully anyway, not always with weapons. 

 

Maybe don't be calling people you disagree with 'shouty lefties' as well. You desire a fair debate yet categorise one side just as much as you feel like you're being categorised. Can't have your cake and eat it. 

I think what the guy is trying to say, in simple terms, if you aren't labour voter this forum will come down on you, I'm in agreement to be honest. I think we should steer away from politics as it's clear Mark doesn't want it on the forum and we should respect that - it doesnt take long for it all to get out of hand. 

[Sampson]

2 minutes ago, davieG said:

Maybe because older Britons are more likely to use/need the public services which are overrun for whatever reason and I'm sure there are many.

Absolutely. Which is primarily due to population ageing and the extremely low birth rates of British residents, as in all the western world (which no country had yet been able to solve birth rates) meaning we have way more older people per tax payer than we had in the recent past and this is only going in one direction and it ultimately requires immigration from non-western countries to fix anytime soon. Even if some country were to find a way to increase the birth rate back to the 2.1-2.4 needed tomorrow , it would take 20+ years until these children could work in the public services 

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I think what the guy is trying to say, in simple terms, if you aren't labour voter this forum will come down on you, I'm in agreement to be honest. I think we should steer away from politics as it's clear Mark doesn't want it on the forum and we should respect that - it doesnt take long for it all to get out of hand. 

With all due respect the other thread went on for a long time without any bad vibes. 

 

Also, it's quite clear you don't have to be a Labour voter to be on the forum. There's plenty of non-labour votes that are able to speak freely and sensibly without abusing other members. I don't think it's as straightforward as that. 

[pmcla26]

23 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Like Brexit, the views of immigration are very split by age (much more so than they are by class) accord to virtually all polls - it was by far the biggest age split at the last election, and like Brexit, because of population ageing, it ends up with politicians pandering to and legitimising the view of pensioners. Immigration was considered the biggest issue amongst 65+ last election but a minor issue amongst under 50s, you can just as easily argue this is because older people don’t want to take responsibility that it was their generation voting in Thatcher, privatisation, stopping public funds in building houses and hoovering up the houses to own several homes, turning them into houses of multiple occupancy and renting them out at extortionate prices who broke the housing market, not immigrants, and that immigrants are an easy scapegoat to these problems they’ve created. But that’s just one viewpoint.

 

Older politicians might claim this is young working class people annoyed at immigration, but almost all polls show younger people are mostly pro-immigration and it’s the over 50s (I.e. the vast majority of politician fanning the flames who are the ones overwhelmingly anti-immigration). Make of that what you will.

 

The two issues correlate 

Edited 7 August by pmcla26

[jgtuk]

31 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2022/07/12/depraved-brothers-led-telford-paedophile-ring-that-groomed-and-prostituted-young-girls/

 

1000 girls in just one case.  I could go on but need to get some work done.  I can only write what has been written with regards to ethnicity and religion of the girls targeted.

 

The last sentence just completely baffles me.  It is exactly the equivalent.  Both disgraceful and should be condemned.  Do not be foolish to think that one is worse than the other.

Don’t make things up. 
 

“Tom Harding, then the superintendant in charge of Telford police, described the claims as sensationalism. He said he had no idea where that figure of 1,000 had come from”

 

And that’s from the article you provided. 

You should see what white men have done to young girls.   

Edited 7 August by jgtuk
Addition

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, jgtuk said:

Don’t make things up. 
 

“Tom Harding, then the superintendant in charge of Telford police, described the claims as sensationalism. He said he had no idea where that figure of 1,000 had come from”

 

And that’s from the article you provided. 

 

Ok,  from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

 

A report from a three-year inquiry into the scandal was released in July 2022. It revealed that more than 1,000 girls had been abused over a 40 year period, and that agencies blamed them for the abuse they suffered, not the perpetrators, and some cases were not investigated because of "nervousness about race". The report made 47 recommendations for improvement by agencies involved. West Mercia Police apologized "unequivocally" for past events as well as Telford and Wrekin Council. Victims were often blamed with excuses that they were "willingly prostituting themselves" and perpetrators were emboldened by the lack of police action.^[9][10]

[Tommy G]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

With all due respect the other thread went on for a long time without any bad vibes. 

 

Also, it's quite clear you don't have to be a Labour voter to be on the forum. There's plenty of non-labour votes that are able to speak freely and sensibly without abusing other members. I don't think it's as straightforward as that. 

My point is a general one - I obviously realise this, thats a very literal way of thinking.

 

More generally if you post a view that is central or right then you will get piled on - which is why theres no point making those type of comments or arguments anymore, or anything political - it ends up left v right. When I talk about right, I'm not referring to ''far right'' here - something I completely disagree with and find prety sad, I'm married to a mixed race woman which makes my son the same - I find the whole situation pretty depressing to be honest.  

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

Ok,  from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

 

A report from a three-year inquiry into the scandal was released in July 2022. It revealed that more than 1,000 girls had been abused over a 40 year period, and that agencies blamed them for the abuse they suffered, not the perpetrators, and some cases were not investigated because of "nervousness about race". The report made 47 recommendations for improvement by agencies involved. West Mercia Police apologized "unequivocally" for past events as well as Telford and Wrekin Council. Victims were often blamed with excuses that they were "willingly prostituting themselves" and perpetrators were emboldened by the lack of police action.^[9][10]

Ah, Wikipedia, that last bastion of unblemished truth.

[Vacamion]

 

There have been false rumours about a demo in my part of the world, causing some businesses in the City Centre to close offices around the rumoured troublespot.  Police up here have then issued a denial of any such demo saying it is just rumour.

 

I've just seen on the local Reddit some made-up rubbish using suspiciously Russian grammatical style about an alleged racist attack, which got the name and geography of the City wrong.

 

The internet is an utter cesspool.

 

Let's turn it off and go back to sending each other letters.

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 August by Vacamion

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Ah, Wikipedia, that last bastion of unblemished truth.

"according to the Home Office, as of 2015, Telford had the highest rate of minor exploitation cases of any town or city in the United Kingdom. The report also revealed that many of them were reported to the council but were ignored"

I think people underestimate the damage these cases have done. 

[jgtuk]

4 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

Ok,  from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

 

A report from a three-year inquiry into the scandal was released in July 2022. It revealed that more than 1,000 girls had been abused over a 40 year period, and that agencies blamed them for the abuse they suffered, not the perpetrators, and some cases were not investigated because of "nervousness about race". The report made 47 recommendations for improvement by agencies involved. West Mercia Police apologized "unequivocally" for past events as well as Telford and Wrekin Council. Victims were often blamed with excuses that they were "willingly prostituting themselves" and perpetrators were emboldened by the lack of police action.^[9][10]

Look, I’ve no doubt that these were horrific crimes but you’re missing the point that you’re targeting a whole demographic with your rhetoric. You use inflammatory language (thousands and thousands) when talking about it. White sex/child crimes far outweigh what has happened in Rochdale etc. 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report

[Foxdiamond]

33 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Like Brexit, the views of immigration are very split by age (much more so than they are by class) accord to virtually all polls - it was by far the biggest age split at the last election, and like Brexit, because of population ageing, it ends up with politicians pandering to and legitimising the view of pensioners. Immigration was considered the biggest issue amongst 65+ last election but a minor issue amongst under 50s, you can just as easily argue this is because older people don’t want to take responsibility that it was their generation voting in Thatcher, privatisation, stopping public funds in building houses and hoovering up the houses to own several homes, turning them into houses of multiple occupancy and renting them out at extortionate prices who broke the housing market, not immigrants, and that immigrants are an easy scapegoat to these problems they’ve created. But that’s just one viewpoint.

 

Older politicians might claim this is young working class people annoyed at immigration, but almost all polls show younger people are mostly pro-immigration and it’s the over 50s (I.e. the vast majority of politician fanning the flames who are the ones overwhelmingly anti-immigration). Make of that what you will.

 

Don't think too many over 65 were rioting. You don't miss an opportunity to have a go at pensioners and paint a picture that we are one mass that think and vote the same and from the same economic background. Nobody asked me in a poll by the way