UK Riots

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

oh I agree with you there. I worked in London for 3 years, but commuted from Leicester. The experience of rush hour on the tube, in the height on summer, is enough to put anyone off. 

 

it was more that there is a wildly different world down there when you compare it to elsewhere in the UK.   

 

Mass Transit systems make a huge difference, as it's easy to get anywhere.   

 

But more than that, even those areas on the outskirts of the city appear to be thriving.   I'm sure that's a really simplistic view, and no doubt there will be real poverty in certain places across the city, but I can't imagine that areas on the outskirts of Birmingham or Manchester, being quite such an attractive place to live. 

Just take a map snap shot of a cluster towns, villages and suburbs in the south east and compare the railway links/stations to anywhere else.

 

I wonder if the fact that Beeching was born in East Grinstead influenced his wiping out of the railways outside the south east.

[Tommy G]

7 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

oh I agree with you there. I worked in London for 3 years, but commuted from Leicester. The experience of rush hour on the tube, in the height on summer, is enough to put anyone off. 

 

it was more that there is a wildly different world down there when you compare it to elsewhere in the UK.   

 

Mass Transit systems make a huge difference, as it's easy to get anywhere.   

 

But more than that, even those areas on the outskirts of the city appear to be thriving.   I'm sure that's a really simplistic view, and no doubt there will be real poverty in certain places across the city, but I can't imagine that areas on the outskirts of Birmingham or Manchester, being quite such an attractive place to live. 

Definitely not, walked through Edgebaston back to New St for example on the way back from the cricket last year - absolute dive, as is central Birmingham in some places. A lot of major cities in this country have really gone down hill quickly

[Torquay Gunner]

1 hour ago, Greg2607 said:

I was in London this weekend.  Took the kids away for a couple of days (i now need to sell a kidney due to the cost if anyone wants to buy one!!) - But there were a couple of things that I noticed. 

 

Firstly.... there was absolutely no feeling of fear, aggro or danger.  Everyone was having fun. People of all colours, creeds and nationalities, getting on, mingling, being nice to each other. 

 

The other thing that I noticed is that the "london bubble" is a real thing.  We stayed in the Angel / Islington area and travelled into the city each 10 (like, a 20 minute tube right) - Even though is meant to be one of the poorer boroughs in London, it is a magnitude of difference in terms of provision and amenities when you compare it to places elsewhere in the UK.  No boarded up shops, no streets full of charity shops.  Just masses of great looking bars, restaurants, grocers, butchers etc. 

 

I live in a relatively nice Market Town in Leicestershire and our High Street is an absolute shower compared to what was about in Angel. 

 

I appreciate that London is our capital, but I wasn't staying in an area that was particularly touristy.   

 

If the REST of the UK could look like that, then lots of this aggro and narrative of "we've lost our country" would go away.

 

It shows just how much of our national wealth is concentrated into a very small area of the UK. It's like a different world in terms of provision. 

 Angel Islington and the main heartbeat of Upper Street has always been one of the better areas of London.  It has long been considered as affluent and therefore certainly not poor.  I was fortunate enough to work around there for 3 years in the late nineties and in my 18 years of working all over central London, it remains my favourite place( no bias of course!) However, just the other side of Highbury and Islington Station is Holloway Road, which is rather more unkempt and downtrodden.  

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Greg2607 said:

oh I agree with you there. I worked in London for 3 years, but commuted from Leicester. The experience of rush hour on the tube, in the height on summer, is enough to put anyone off. 

 

it was more that there is a wildly different world down there when you compare it to elsewhere in the UK.   

 

Mass Transit systems make a huge difference, as it's easy to get anywhere.   

 

But more than that, even those areas on the outskirts of the city appear to be thriving.   I'm sure that's a really simplistic view, and no doubt there will be real poverty in certain places across the city, but I can't imagine that areas on the outskirts of Birmingham or Manchester, being quite such an attractive place to live. 

They are. One of the massive symptoms of Covid is the suburbs gaining popularity over inner-city areas. I owned a house at the very edge of the city of Birmingham - bought for £120k, sold seven years later for £200k. 

 

Both cities have affluent suburbs not dis-similar to what you described in Angel. Your point is generally solid though. 

[orangecity23]

I had to visit London with work last week, and getting about on the trains and tube is an absolute doddle. Compare and contrast with a few weeks prior, returning to Leicester train station and thought about getting a bus home to the West End/Braunstone town area. Would have needed 2 buses, it was actually quicker to just bloody walk a couple of miles home. Our bus routes are useless, fine if you want to go into the city centre once in a blue moon to look at where M and S used to be. If you want to get to any of : Train station, football club, rugby club, royal infirmary, university of Leicester, de montfort hall or anything involving travel from the east to the west sides of the city they are no help whatsoever.

[bovril]

Another child stabbed. wtf is going on

[Tommy G]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Another child stabbed. wtf is going on

Yep and an adult 

[Wymsey]

37 minutes ago, bovril said:

Another child stabbed. wtf is going on

Seriously, why is it mainly London with this issue?

 

Don't think it's all to do with gangs.

Edited 12 August by Wymsey

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, bovril said:

Another child stabbed. wtf is going on

What is going on is a ****ing awesome security guard called Abdulah has jumped on the attacker and disarmed him.  

[Daggers]

Not sure what a stabbing story is doing in this thread?

 

It wasn't the cause of the riots and as far as we know has absolutely fvck all to do with them.

 

 

[CosbehFox]

19 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Seriously, why is it mainly London with this issue?

 

Don't think it's all to do with gangs.

It’s not mainly London. It’s a serious issue across the Uk. 
 

Just look at the locations to this link here 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/knifecrime

 

Manchester, Leeds, Exeter, Wolverhampton (that’s an awful case which coverage had to be rightly protected), Bath. 
 

Some of these locations are considered quite affluent 

Edited 13 August by CosbehFox

[Fox92]

21 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Yep and an adult 

Confirmed it was just the child. Adult's blood that of her daughters.

 

Absolutely sickening another stabbing and another child. It gets worse.

[Izzy]

Every time I read about someone being sentenced, it says so and so, age, 'of no fixed address'

 

I wonder how many people in the UK are 'of no fixed address'

[Wymsey]

There's a requirement to build a lot of more prisons, it seems..

Edited 13 August by Wymsey

[David Hankey]

44 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

There's a requirement to build a lot of more prisons, it seems..

I think that is somewhat of an understatement although we've heard nothing about the so-called early release scheme of late.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

There's a requirement to build a lot of more prisons, it seems..

Or to make people commit less crime.

 

Or decriminalise a lot of current offences 

[David Hankey]

I get sick and tired of these kids who can't be named because of their age. Presumably, they knew what they were doing.

 

The parents also have a responsibility for their kids and their actions whilst they are underage.

[reporterpenguin]

30 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

I get sick and tired of these kids who can't be named because of their age. Presumably, they knew what they were doing.

 

The parents also have a responsibility for their kids and their actions whilst they are underage.

I have mixed feelings on this. Part of me thinks that a teenager, as you said, would know what they’re doing and should face the consequences. 
 

On the other hand, I’m sure a lot of us would like to think that mistakes we made in our teens don’t reflect us once we’re adults. Putting a kids name out there now will be a millstone around their neck for the rest of their life, unless it’s a particularly serious crime I’m not sure how right would be. 
 

My final thought, why do any of us need to know the name of a 13 year old in Aldershot who was threatening violence? What difference to our lives does it make? It’s reassuring to know that people are being prosecuted and held responsible, but that doesn’t always mean we need to know each individuals name. 
 

As you say, allowing a 13 year old to join in with this sounds like a huge failure of parenting as much as anything. It doesn’t excuse the 13 year old, but it’s certainly mitigation. 

[David Hankey]

28 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

I have mixed feelings on this. Part of me thinks that a teenager, as you said, would know what they’re doing and should face the consequences. 
 

On the other hand, I’m sure a lot of us would like to think that mistakes we made in our teens don’t reflect us once we’re adults. Putting a kids name out there now will be a millstone around their neck for the rest of their life, unless it’s a particularly serious crime I’m not sure how right would be. 
 

My final thought, why do any of us need to know the name of a 13 year old in Aldershot who was threatening violence? What difference to our lives does it make? It’s reassuring to know that people are being prosecuted and held responsible, but that doesn’t always mean we need to know each individuals name. 
 

As you say, allowing a 13 year old to join in with this sounds like a huge failure of parenting as much as anything. It doesn’t excuse the 13 year old, but it’s certainly mitigation. 

You will also acknowledge there is a massive gulf between "mistakes" and these hoodlums going on the rampage creating huge mayhem and distress.

[reporterpenguin]

13 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

You will also acknowledge there is a massive gulf between "mistakes" and these hoodlums going on the rampage creating huge mayhem and distress.

Absolutely, and they should be punished for it. I’m just not sure releasing their name as a 13 year old for threatening violence should form part of that punishment, tying that to them for perhaps the next 80 years.  Sure they may not grow out of being a scum bag, but they might and it doesn’t quite sit right with me that they are forever publicly associated with their actions as a young teenager. Punish them, but it doesn’t have to be a part of their life forever. 
 

I am genuinely interested if you don’t mind, why do you want to know their names? What difference does it make to you and your life if they’re going to be punished anyway?

[Robo61]

I never fully understand why the not naming of chidren or anyone for that matter that committs a criminal offence  causes so much angst amongst  the general public. Those close to the crime and those living in the immediate vacinity will almost certainly know anyway and as others have already said what material difference does it make to anyone else. Would be truely interested in peoples thought processes on this subject.

[David Hankey]

11 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

Absolutely, and they should be punished for it. I’m just not sure releasing their name as a 13 year old for threatening violence should form part of that punishment, tying that to them for perhaps the next 80 years.  Sure they may not grow out of being a scum bag, but they might and it doesn’t quite sit right with me that they are forever publicly associated with their actions as a young teenager. Punish them, but it doesn’t have to be a part of their life forever. 
 

I am genuinely interested if you don’t mind, why do you want to know their names? What difference does it make to you and your life if they’re going to be punished anyway?

Perhaps if they didn't commit the crimes we would all be better off. 

 

Some will use it as a "badge of honour" and continue to live a life of  crime whereas others will go on to repent and live a productive life.

 

Just because they are young they are still responsible for their actions.

 

 

[Sampson]

32 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

 

Some will use it as a "badge of honour" and continue to live a life of  crime whereas others will go on to repent and live a productive life.

 

Yea and they are much more to do the latter if they aren’t unable to get a job for the rest of their life because everytime a potential employer googles them, they won’t hire them because of what they did when they were 13.

 

They’re far more likely to have the opportunity to repent and have a better and productive  life if they are aren’t publicly outed for the entire nation for the rest of their life. 
 

He doesn’t even have a developed frontal cortex yet, he literally doesn’t have the biological ability to fully use the rational part of his brain yet - that’s exactly why we have laws which give minors limited legal responsibility. 
 

Why does not naming this kid affect you so much emotionally that it “makes you feel sick” and “makes you feel tired”? It’s a bizarre thing to make you feel sick and tired about.

Edited 13 August by Sampson

[David Hankey]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Yea and they are much more to do the latter if they aren’t unable to get a job for the rest of their life because everytime a potential employer googles them, they won’t hire them because of what they did when they were 13.

 

They’re far more likely to have the opportunity to repent and have a better and productive  life if they are aren’t publicly outed for the entire nation for the rest of their life. 
 

He doesn’t even have a developed frontal cortex yet, he literally doesn’t have the biological ability to fully use the rational part of his brain yet - that’s exactly why we have laws which give minors limited legal responsibility. 
 

Why does not naming this kid affect you so much emotionally that it “makes you feel sick” and “makes you feel tired”? It’s a bizarre thing to make you feel sick and tired about.

I expected you to join in but just in case you weren't aware "sick and tired" is a figure of speech.

 

Of course, I understand there will always be a body of do-gooders wanting to protect these miscreants in the hope will become useful citizens.

[Torquay Gunner]

I don't think they should be named and shamed at 13, unless it is a a really serious crime like Murder.  Let them take their punishment and hopefully learn from it.  If they don't, we are sure to be reading their names in a few years anyway.