Ukraine

[SpacedX]

It is reported that Ukraine have sunk the Russian submarine Rostov on Don which was moored in Sevastopol shipyard following repairs having been damaged last year in a separate missile attack. The once mighty Black Sea fleet is vulnerable to attack without raising anchor and a supposedly undetectable kilo class submarine can be picked off whilst berthed. 

[SpacedX]

The second day now of a cross border attack on the Kursk region of Russia by Ukrainian forces near the town of Sudzha which is all of five miles from the border. Two and a half years after a full scale invasion, sorry, a "special military operation" on behalf of the Russian Federation. Putin then has the audacity to brand this incursion as "a major act of provocation". How can anyone take this goon seriously? He's as farcical as Trump. 

[foxy tiler]

21 hours ago, SpacedX said:

The second day now of a cross border attack on the Kursk region of Russia by Ukrainian forces near the town of Sudzha which is all of five miles from the border. Two and a half years after a full scale invasion, sorry, a "special military operation" on behalf of the Russian Federation. Putin then has the audacity to brand this incursion as "a major act of provocation". How can anyone take this goon seriously? He's as farcical as Trump. 

I think I read somewhere that Ukrainians had taken more ground in three days in Kursk than what russia took in two years in Donetsk.

[MPH]

I highly doubt Ukraine truly want anything to  with Russian territory.. it’s probably a ploy to get Russia to pull some troops away from another battlefront..

[foxy tiler]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

I highly doubt Ukraine truly want anything to  with Russian territory.. it’s probably a ploy to get Russia to pull some troops away from another battlefront..

Cut the rail link to Belogrod thus making it more difficult for russia to move supplies as well.

[MPH]

On 07/08/2024 at 15:38, SpacedX said:

The second day now of a cross border attack on the Kursk region of Russia by Ukrainian forces near the town of Sudzha which is all of five miles from the border. Two and a half years after a full scale invasion, sorry, a "special military operation" on behalf of the Russian Federation. Putin then has the audacity to brand this incursion as "a major act of provocation". How can anyone take this goon seriously? He's as farcical as Trump. 

 

in many ways he has to keep this farcical stance because this enables him to stay with the standpoint  with the Russian people that the east of Ukraine and Crimea was Russian territory anyway and thus there are no Russian troops on Ukrainian ground, only Ukrainian troops on Russian ground and that they are in fact the innocent ones..

 

 

its mind warping  of the highest level..

Edited 9 August by MPH

[Lionator]

What are the chances Putin nukes Kyiv in response?

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Lionator said:

What are the chances Putin nukes Kyiv in response?

Minimal. It doesn't get him what he wants.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Minimal. It doesn't get him what he wants.

And will this invasion be worth it? Because Ukraine has a lack of manpower anyway. Doesn’t it just mean they can get rolled over even faster in Donbas?

[Zear0]

Burning tyres under the cooling towers. Genius. 

[Lako42]

Shame Russia has Nukes. 

 

They'd be a piece of piss to defeat otherwise. 

 

They've really embarrassed themselves over the last 3 years

 

 

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, Lako42 said:

Shame Russia has Nukes. 

 

They'd be a piece of piss to defeat otherwise. 

 

They've really embarrassed themselves over the last 3 years

 

 

Tell that to Hitler/Napoleon

[Lako42]

23 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Tell that to Hitler/Napoleon

Slightly different times. 

 

I was being a bit flippant tbh but they really are an old fashioned force who seemingly can't even defend themselves against a weak threat who they have been trying to invade for three years. 

 

 

[Lionator]

9 hours ago, Lako42 said:

Shame Russia has Nukes. 

 

They'd be a piece of piss to defeat otherwise. 

 

They've really embarrassed themselves over the last 3 years

 

 

Xi should roll in from the east, would be hilarious

[Lionator]

So do Ukraine withdraw back to the border to save their men or dig in and try and slug it out over the winter? 

[kenny]

33 minutes ago, Lionator said:

So do Ukraine withdraw back to the border to save their men or dig in and try and slug it out over the winter? 

Rumours are they are digging trenches.

 

Apparently puts them in himars range of 3 airfields used to launch bombing raids in addition to cutting the main road/rail routes to the Donbas.

[Nalis]

I've been Team Ukraine all the way. I must admit that going into Russian towns doesn't sit 100% comfortably with me....though I do get it's about attacking Russia at the root to reduce further attacks in Ukraine in the future.

Edited 14 August by Nalis

[Izzy]

I wonder if Ukraine would be better off using their resources to kick Russia out of the towns they currently occupy, rather than invade them back. I dunno.

[Wymsey]

10 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I wonder if Ukraine would be better off using their resources to kick Russia out of the towns they currently occupy, rather than invade them back. I dunno.

Agreed.

Am concerned they are biting more than they can chew currently.

Edited 14 August by Wymsey

[kenny]

15 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I wonder if Ukraine would be better off using their resources to kick Russia out of the towns they currently occupy, rather than invade them back. I dunno.

Most of the gifted military equipment is fast and mobile, ideal for offensive operations, not trench warfare. 

 

Most of these tanks sent are fairly useless as they are susceptible to drones etc.

 

Going on the offensive allows Ukraine to make use of some of their advantages they have over Russia. Taking back towns dug in with some of the largest minefield in the world against an enemy with little regard for its soldiers isn't something that NATO has a plan for currently.

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, kenny said:

Most of the gifted military equipment is fast and mobile, ideal for offensive operations, not trench warfare. 

 

Most of these tanks sent are fairly useless as they are susceptible to drones etc.

 

Going on the offensive allows Ukraine to make use of some of their advantages they have over Russia. Taking back towns dug in with some of the largest minefield in the world against an enemy with little regard for its soldiers isn't something that NATO has a plan for currently.

I think that they do have a plan for it, it's just that plan would involve weaponry invoking an unacceptable level of escalation, so they can't apply it.

 

On the topic itself, I agree that Ukraine are doing the right thing here by staging a counter offensive away from the existing front lines and asking Russia some questions that it clearly wasn't ready to answer.

[Lionator]

25 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think that they do have a plan for it, it's just that plan would involve weaponry invoking an unacceptable level of escalation, so they can't apply it.

 

On the topic itself, I agree that Ukraine are doing the right thing here by staging a counter offensive away from the existing front lines and asking Russia some questions that it clearly wasn't ready to answer.

The cynic’s are saying it’s a PR win but not much else. Yes look how terrible it is for Russia that 20km of their border villages have been invaded, but unless Ukraine can really dig in, it’s going to have very little impact on the long term war outcome, other than to make Putin double down. In fact if it goes really wrong, it could hasten their defeat. 

 

54 minutes ago, kenny said:

Most of the gifted military equipment is fast and mobile, ideal for offensive operations, not trench warfare. 

 

Most of these tanks sent are fairly useless as they are susceptible to drones etc.

 

Going on the offensive allows Ukraine to make use of some of their advantages they have over Russia. Taking back towns dug in with some of the largest minefield in the world against an enemy with little regard for its soldiers isn't something that NATO has a plan for currently.

If God forbid NATO ever goes to war with a Russia or China, trench warfare would be the least of our worries. 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The cynic’s are saying it’s a PR win but not much else. Yes look how terrible it is for Russia that 20km of their border villages have been invaded, but unless Ukraine can really dig in, it’s going to have very little impact on the long term war outcome, other than to make Putin double down. In fact if it goes really wrong, it could hasten their defeat. 

 

If God forbid NATO ever goes to war with a Russia or China, trench warfare would be the least of our worries. 

PR is a lot more important than some people think in terms of warfare. The Americans were never defeated on the field of battle by either the Viet Cong/NVA or the Taliban... but as of the present day, the strategic situation reads as a loss for them in both Vietnam and Afghanistan. And that is the case largely because of negative PR leading to war weariness leading to a loss due to no longer wanting to continue to fight. So this might still be a good thing overall, for one thing it shows those supplying weapons to Ukraine that they're still in the mood to use them effectively and so keep supplying them for as long as is needed.

 

Needless to say, I agree totally with your second paragraph.

[Lionator]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

PR is a lot more important than some people think in terms of warfare. The Americans were never defeated on the field of battle by either the Viet Cong/NVA or the Taliban... but as of the present day, the strategic situation reads as a loss for them in both Vietnam and Afghanistan. And that is the case largely because of negative PR leading to war weariness leading to a loss due to no longer wanting to continue to fight. So this might still be a good thing overall, for one thing it shows those supplying weapons to Ukraine that they're still in the mood to use them effectively and so keep supplying them for as long as is needed.

 

Needless to say, I agree totally with your second paragraph.

Would it be wise to say that strategically Russian have already lost in that department? The most land they’re going to get are those 4 oblasts. Sad for Ukraine but way below what Putin thought he was going to get. Therefore the PR has already been done. 

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Would it be wise to say that strategically Russian have already lost in that department? The most land they’re going to get are those 4 oblasts. Sad for Ukraine but way below what Putin thought he was going to get. Therefore the PR has already been done. 

That's possible that this is the limit of the strategic developments, but both parties don't appear to know or accept that yet. It's up to Ukraine to get whatever victories (PR or otherwise) that they can then take to the negotiating table.