Cooper - OUT

[The_77]

6 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

To be fair, we are one of only 4 teams I believe that have scored in every league game so far this season.

 

That’s not sustainable with how we are currently playing, unfortunately. We will regress to the mean with our low number of shots per game, low number of shots on target per game, and avg shot distance per game. 

[Dahnsouff]

16 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

From "Enzo, Enzo, give us a wave"

 

To "Cooper, Cooper, sort it out"

 

In the space of a few months. Says it all really.

 

He's totally inept.

1. Enzo was poached 
2. Plenty on here disliked his style and were glad to see the back of him
   1. Karma’s a bitch.
   2. Moaning is not a shortcut to happiness.

[wardyfox86]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

1. Enzo was poached 
2. Plenty on here disliked his style and were glad to see the back of him
   1. Karma’s a bitch.
   2. Moaning is not a shortcut to happiness.

Spot on. Look at how he's doing at Chelsea with what was previously considered a bin fire.

 

Every player knows their place in the team, and their role in his tactic under Enzo. Whether you liked his style or not, he was a proper leader, believed in his philosophy and will live or die by that. That gave the players freedom to do their jobs.

 

Cooper couldn't be further away from the above qualities, there's nastiness and hate in here which is wrong. He's just not the right man and is way out of his depth.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, indierich06 said:

The problem is the board, they **** it up every time.

Do they? They’ve made more good appointments than bad in my opinion. 
 

Sousa and Cooper are the only two I’d say they’ve got wrong. Sven was just a laugh, and Dean Smith doesn’t really count because we were dead and buried by then. 

[ClaphamFox]

18 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

Did they **** it up when they brought Maresca in? Did they **** it up when they brought Rodgers in? Pearson?

 

Don't act like they always get it wrong with managers, they have as many hits as misses.

 

This is a miss but the pickings were probably slim due to the likely sanctions. They should be judged on how quickly they come to terms with it, and who they replace him with. This will show if they've learned from the Rodgers mess.

You're right. Our record at managerial appointments since the Thais took over has been mixed - some good, some bad. Probably not much different to most other clubs.

 

I'd be really interested to know whether they chose Cooper because they thought he was the best man for the job or because he was the cheapest option on the shortlist. If it was the latter, that was a huge mistake. You can't compromise too much when choosing a manager - you need the best man for the job. And if it takes a few million to get him, that's what you have to do. 

I really like Steve Cooper as a person. He seems like a very decent human being and his honesty in interviews is impressive, as is the respect he has for the club. The best outcome would be for him to prove all of us sceptics wrong and make us look like idiots. I just have a feeling that won't happen, though, and his time with us will be very brief.

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:05 by ClaphamFox

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Just saw Cooper describing last night as “average at best” - absolutely wild if he thinks that is any way close to be normative and acceptable.

[filbertway]

21 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Putting all of this detailed analysis aside, sometimes a manager just doesn’t fit culturally, and the fans aren’t having him.

 

We had it with Steve McLaren.  He was just seen, rightly or wrongly, as a ridiculous Derby fan.  We weren’t having him.  He was basically booed from the moment he arrived and he lasted about 100 days.  
 

I’m sure we rationalised it with guff about substitutions and playing style, but it was simpler than that - the fans didn’t want him because they just didn’t want him.  

Nah this guy is rancid. Just feels like he's taking it a week at a time. He's got a proper small-time mentality and he's not given any indication that he sees a future here.

 

No playing style. No desire to develop our young players. 

 

Hes properly awful, its like having Gary Megson back.

 

This is from one of the few people initially who was cautiously optimistic about the appointment

 

[inckley fox]

8 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Putting all of this detailed analysis aside, sometimes a manager just doesn’t fit culturally, and the fans aren’t having him.

 

We had it with Steve McLaren.  He was just seen, rightly or wrongly, as a ridiculous Derby fan.  We weren’t having him.  He was basically booed from the moment he arrived and he lasted about 100 days.  
 

I’m sure we rationalised it with guff about substitutions and playing style, but it was simpler than that - the fans didn’t want him because they just didn’t want him.  

Very well put.

 

When I've looked back over page after page of this, picking out the most common criticisms, there are some that seem like big, important question marks over Cooper. The fact that things didn't really improve as time went on at Forest. The very defensive set-ups. The slowness to make changes, even when fatigue is visibly an issue, in games.

 

Then there are the questions which may or may not have sensible answers. The exclusion of Ricardo and Vestergard, where you can look at how they got on for us when they were last playing at this level for us. The unspectacular results which, nonetheless, aren't disastrous for a team in our position at such an early point. The rumours of unrest from dodgy sources.

 

But then you get the pure vitriol. He's ugly. He's ex-Forest (as if that's never worked out well for us before). He's changed all of Enzo's great work (which wasn't looking too promising in the second half of last season). He doesn't deserve another chance at PL level.

 

It's the prevalence of the latter which makes me wonder whether the fans are going to contribute to such a negative atmosphere around the manager, who's already in a very tough job, that success becomes even more difficult. I wonder whether it's a Leicester tendency to turn prematurely on some managers (Milne, O'Neill, Pearson). Or maybe it's that their expectations aren't realistic regarding where we are now. Alternatively, are some people putting too much stock in what worked for us at a lower level? I go through all of these things in my head and increasingly come to the conclusion that a significant number of people simply don't like him, and decided that that was how it was going to be from the outset. I mean, I felt that way from start to finish about Brendan Rodgers, but understood quite quickly that he was doing fine and, not being any sort of expert, I should bite my tongue. But on this occasion, there hasn't been (and there's unlikely to be) anything which dramatically lifts everyone, and their negativity.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Can't remember where I read it but back when we appointed Cooper, there were some comments about the quality of coaches he brings with him to clubs aren't good enough. If true, I do wonder if that's effecting our players as much as Cooper himself. If the coaches are a massive drop off to previous regimes then it will feel very stark and likely add to the early disillusion.

 

I was hoping that Hughes and Dawson may have improved it if it's the case but admittedly I don't know a massive amount about either.

I posted that here after reading up on their forum, it's all very championship especially the main two Cooper and Alan Tate.

 

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

You're right. Our record at managerial appointments since the Thais took over has been mixed - some good, some bad. Probably not much different to most other clubs.

 

I'd be really interested to know whether they chose Cooper because they thought he was the best man for the job or because he was the cheapest option on the shortlist. If it was the latter, that was a huge mistake. You can't compromise too much when choosing a manager. You need the best man for the job because the manager is much more influential on how the team performs than any individual player. If it takes a few million to get the right man, that's what you have to do. 

I really like Steve Cooper as a person. He seems like a very decent human being and his honesty in interviews is impressive, as is the respect he has for the club. The best outcome would be for him to prove all of us sceptics wrong and make us look like idiots. I just have a feeling that won't happen, though, and his time with us will be very brief.

 

Generally they’ve got it right. You’ve got to take the decisions they’ve made after Milan I’d say. 
 

Pearson’s re appointment was the right call. Claudio was the right call, Puel, despite the flack he gets actually assembled and excellent side, he just ran his course. Rodgers if probably the best we’ve ever had, again despite his sour ending we played the best football I’ve ever seen us play at times under him. Again, for one reason or another his time ran its course and Maresca was the right appointment…… 

 

Generally they get it right, Cooper appeared on paper to be a safe choice, he’s well liked and rated as a young coach, and due to the potential PSR issue we needed to be sensible financially, but he just hasn’t connected with the squad. They’re playing with no belief or understanding of whatever it is Cooper is trying to implement. It just isn’t working under him, and the longer this is allowed to go on the more toxic it will get. They need to learn from Brendan, he was given far too long, and it killed us…. History will repeat itself unless they act now. 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Pliskin said:

Generally they’ve got it right. You’ve got to take the decisions they’ve made after Milan I’d say. 
 

Pearson’s re appointment was the right call. Claudio was the right call, Puel, despite the flack he gets actually assembled and excellent side, he just ran his course. Rodgers if probably the best we’ve ever had, again despite his sour ending we played the best football I’ve ever seen us play at times under him. Again, for one reason or another his time ran its course and Maresca was the right appointment…… 

 

Generally they get it right, Cooper appeared on paper to be a safe choice, he’s well liked and rated as a young coach, and due to the potential PSR issue we needed to be sensible financially, but he just hasn’t connected with the squad. They’re playing with no belief or understanding of whatever it is Cooper is trying to implement. It just isn’t working under him, and the longer this is allowed to go on the more toxic it will get. They need to learn from Brendan, he was given far too long, and it killed us…. History will repeat itself unless they act now. 

Or the learn from Pearson and give him time? These types of comparisons can be taken whichever way you like, would rather they came out and set a target, but as they lack the football savvy infrastructure above the manager, they are in no position to do so.

[TMELcfc]

26 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Putting all of this detailed analysis aside, sometimes a manager just doesn’t fit culturally, and the fans aren’t having him.

 

We had it with Steve McLaren.  He was just seen, rightly or wrongly, as a ridiculous Derby fan.  We weren’t having him.  He was basically booed from the moment he arrived and he lasted about 100 days.  
 

I’m sure we rationalised it with guff about substitutions and playing style, but it was simpler than that - the fans didn’t want him because they just didn’t want him.  

This is definitely it… it didn’t bother me that he’d been at Forest, I was and still am, much more concerned with the club and how it’s being run. Top and Rudkin are top of my list of people who need to leave and are the ones who ‘don’t know what they’re doing’ but with a lot of fans it’s Cooper who needs to go. Can’t say I’ve watched every minute and certainly had no appetite for last night but his starting XI and substitutions definitely haven’t helped with his induction… and the football, has not been pretty. 
 

But I still firmly put the blame at boards door more than I do Cooper 

[Pliskin]

28 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Putting all of this detailed analysis aside, sometimes a manager just doesn’t fit culturally, and the fans aren’t having him.

 

We had it with Steve McLaren.  He was just seen, rightly or wrongly, as a ridiculous Derby fan.  We weren’t having him.  He was basically booed from the moment he arrived and he lasted about 100 days.  
 

I’m sure we rationalised it with guff about substitutions and playing style, but it was simpler than that - the fans didn’t want him because they just didn’t want him.  

You’re spot on. I genuinely don’t think Coopers a bad coach (even though I might say it after we lose) but it’s just not working here. 
 

I think a massive contribution is Enzo being so different from Cooper, Enzo unified the team, and the majority seemed to be pulling in the same directions…. Cooper just hasn’t had the same impact on the lads, you can tell they’re playing with no belief in his system, and I think it’s always sad because it’s pretty much over before it even starts. You can tell he’s swimming against the current already. 

[SemperEadem]

I can’t see them getting rid until after Forest at the earliest.

[Lionator]

38 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Not a comment on Cooper, but nearly everyone on here was not exactly shouting "Enzo give us a wave" after Bristol City and Plymouth, so let's not delude ourselves that we were all happy bunnies then

The situation and context are completely different. The frustration then was that we had worked so hard to get where we had, and that Enzo’s stubbornness was going to lead us to blowing it. That was most certainly panic and obviously I don’t think we were ever seriously contemplating sacking him. The players were still doing what Enzo wanted, we were just terribly ineffective.

 

Here, nobody knows what’s happening, the players look fed up, others are being marginalised, amongst the 100’s of other identified issues.

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

You’re spot on. I genuinely don’t think Coopers a bad coach (even though I might say it after we lose) but it’s just not working here. 
 

I think a massive contribution is Enzo being so different from Cooper, Enzo unified the team, and the majority seemed to be pulling in the same directions…. Cooper just hasn’t had the same impact on the lads, you can tell they’re playing with no belief in his system, and I think it’s always sad because it’s pretty much over before it even starts. You can tell he’s swimming against the current already. 

I really think this is at the heart of it. If Cooper had replaced a coach who'd been sacked because he was shit and the squad was completely demoralised, the players would be much more open to his ideas and managerial style. As it is, he took over a very successful manager who was by all accounts loved and respected by the players. I suspect the squad misses Enzo's clear vision and his obsessive attention to detail, and Cooper's approach is just too different for the them get on board with.

Edited Wednesday at 12:30 by ClaphamFox

[BKLFox]

23 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

Spot on. Look at how he's doing at Chelsea with what was previously considered a bin fire.

 

Every player knows their place in the team, and their role in his tactic under Enzo. Whether you liked his style or not, he was a proper leader, believed in his philosophy and will live or die by that. That gave the players freedom to do their jobs.

 

Cooper couldn't be further away from the above qualities, there's nastiness and hate in here which is wrong. He's just not the right man and is way out of his depth.

Just as another observation, Enzo also had a role for the fans very similar to what he said to the players, either embrace my style or go & watch someone else.....

It would seem we as a fan base only sing when we are winning

[Mon.is.a.god]

On 23/09/2024 at 06:47, Pliskin said:

Eh? There were actual news articles about Potter joining….

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/18/leicester-appointing-graham-potter-manager-replace-enzo-maresca

 

And then Ornstein on talksport explained about the backroom staff scenario…. So how exactly is that joining dots? Even Percy stated in his article the club went for Cooper as it financially seemed the best option. 

Good god you’re hard work. There’s no doubt we wanted Potter. That’s not we’re discussing. You’re like a politician, a bad one at best.

I’m calling you out for your below claim that we didn’t want to pay the release clause for his team which you seem to be so sure about but seemingly have no evidence to suggest this. Oh sorry, Ornstein conveniently “mentioned” this on talksport but as a written press hack, decided not to put this in any of his articles? How convenient for you Pilskin……
 

On 22/09/2024 at 16:11, Pliskin said:

Potter didn’t bin us off. We didn’t agree to pay to release the team he wanted from their current contracts with their respective clubs. So because of this he didn’t want to take the job, which is fair enough. 
 

Cooper was appointed because it financially was the best option, because we were not sure what was going to happen re PRS. Potter wanted the job, we couldn’t make it happen for the reasons above. 

I’m calling bull$hit and admit it, you don’t have a clue that this is the case even though you’re writing it as some sort of itk.

 

As I wrote before, I just find the amount of posters writing such statements as above totally bizarre. I’m surprised more people don’t call them out for this. As someone who works in pr, naturally my role is to confirm facts from fiction. I’m new to this forum and just find it weird seeing people type pure fantasy to massage their own agenda.

 

Hypothetically, let’s say you’re Disney scenario was reality. You do realise how the media works? Hacks get fed information purely for pr purposes. This would be the exact sort of info that would be fed from Potters camp to their trusted hack purely for pr “hey, Graham was very interested in making a return but LCFC couldn’t afford for his staff so darn, looks like he’ll wait for the next role.” Looks a lot better than “hey, Graham is currently not interested as he’s currently getting paid £2 million a month to chill at home and watch homes under the hammer and he doesn’t want to break his sabbatical at this moment in time!”

Everything reported in the sports press is for an ulterior motive but in this case, your lies weren’t even reported!

 

The fact you think our impending points deduction at the time had no bearing on our managerial search is naive to say the least. We’re not as an attractive proposition (especially then) as many think and can’t just pick and choose who we want.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

You’re spot on. I genuinely don’t think Coopers a bad coach (even though I might say it after we lose) but it’s just not working here. 
 

I think a massive contribution is Enzo being so different from Cooper, Enzo unified the team, and the majority seemed to be pulling in the same directions…. Cooper just hasn’t had the same impact on the lads, you can tell they’re playing with no belief in his system, and I think it’s always sad because it’s pretty much over before it even starts. You can tell he’s swimming against the current already. 

Think you’ve hit a nail on the head here, but not quite on the right logic, literally was just thinking then. When was the last time we had a manager poached? You’re going far back as Megson iirc,and then if you date it back to a manager that had success and was liked you’re going back to O’Neill. 
 

I actually think if Enzo was here, and the results were exactly the same and even the application the vitriol wouldn’t be anywhere near as close, the facts are he was never the fans favourite to takeover, and we’ve not really give him a chance to get going really.

 

like people laughing at takes from outsiders looking in and if you flipped it round and we were some other club we’d probably be saying what do they expect after 5 games.

[funkyrobot]

5 hours ago, ozleicester said:

second or third time ive read this... is there any evidence?

The full 90 minutes last night for a start.

[StriderHiryu]

4 hours ago, SecretPro said:

This was one of the most mental aspects of last night for me.

 

Luke ****ing Thomas bombing forward.

You have to laugh because otherwise you'll cry. How could anyone in training see Luke Thomas and Ricardo play together and come to the conclusion that Thomas is the better to bomb on?

 

You could say that with his system it would mean that Fatawu wouldn't be able to play wide, but this was league 2 opposition, he could play more narrow. OR Ricardo could play on the left. The use of Kristiansen or Thomas for their left foot is vastly overrated. How many crosses do they put into the box, and how many of those crosses result in anything?

 

 

4 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

That was what I meant when saying the inverted winger….Cooper’s tactics in essence (basic level compared to your detailed analysis) is that we want two number 10’s behind our striker with us forfeiting a winger for a full back.

 

My anger with this is last season our wingers were our biggest and most consistent attacking threat.

 

That’s been replaced with offensively awful FB’s. HOW can Cooper say he watched all of our games last season and come to that conclusion.

 

It angers me and makes any defence of Cooper inexcusable in my eyes.

Prety good analysis to be fair, and you've hit the nail on the head. His system has made key players from last season worse. If his new system meant better overall performances and results, then no one would have a problem. But we've gone from a team that had a 97 point season and looked like a really exciting prospect, to one who's fans feel have gone backwards.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:36 by StriderHiryu

[FrankieADZ]

would love us to see if Edin Terzic would be interested, but noooooo

[pmcla26]

9 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

You could say that with his system it would mean that Fatawu wouldn't be able to play wide, but this was league 2 opposition, he could play more narrow. OR Ricardo could play on the left. The use of Kristiansen or Thomas for their left foot is vastly overrated. How many crosses do they put into the box, and how many of those crosses result in anything?

It's not just in the attacking sense that the left foot is pointless, it's also making our build-up play less varied. 

 

We're building up with 3 right footers at the back and 2 right footers ahead of them - having a left footed player sitting in that 3 would allow us to use that side to open up play a lot better. Pretty much every piece of build up play we have ends up with our right-back, or the left side come back to the middle defender/goalkeeper. 

 

We should have signed Arthur Theate or David Hancko in the summer and kept Ricardo inverting at right-back. 

 

I hate this current system so much. 

Edited Wednesday at 13:46 by pmcla26

[Pliskin]

51 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Or the learn from Pearson and give him time? These types of comparisons can be taken whichever way you like, would rather they came out and set a target, but as they lack the football savvy infrastructure above the manager, they are in no position to do so.

Thing is we weren’t playing badly under Pearson. Something just wasn't clicking, and then it did….  Here you can just tell the players aren’t having him, there’s zero cohesion at all, and no evidence of a plan. 

[coolhandfox]

23 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

You have to laugh because otherwise you'll cry. How could anyone in training see Luke Thomas and Ricardo play together and come to the conclusion that Thomas is the better to bomb on?

 

You could say that with his system it would mean that Fatawu wouldn't be able to play wide, but this was league 2 opposition, he could play more narrow. OR Ricardo could play on the left. The use of Kristiansen or Thomas for their left foot is vastly overrated. How many crosses do they put into the box, and how many of those crosses result in anything?

 

 

Prety good analysis to be fair, and you've hit the nail on the head. His system has made key players from last season worse. If his new system meant better overall performances and results, then no one would have a problem. But we've gone from a team that had a 97 point season and looked like a really exciting prospect, to one who's fans feel have gone backwards.

 

 

No one in the right mind would look at our fullbacks and implement a system where they would be one of the main wide attacking outlets.

 

If you are playing this system you buy an attacking full back who has the attributes.

 

Why spend money on a number 10, and a 6/8 who will spending more time on the bench then on  the pitch, go buy the fullback you need.....

 

System doesn't suit our squad or best players, even on the FA level 1 coaching badge you learn to pick a system that suits your players.