Tottenham (H) - Mon 19 Aug 8pm - Pre-Match Thread

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, Izzy said:

You're a bit older and better looking than I imagined 

[SemperEadem]

8 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Is there a tribute planned for Shakespeare?

UFS have something

[Chrysalis]

8 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Is there a tribute planned for Shakespeare?

Pre kickoff.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Seeing the games today and despite the disappointment with what has been poor pre-season, its first game of the season so time to latch on to some positives.

 

1. our 14/15 preseason transfer business was actually quite underwhelming as this one. Albrighton on a free and Ulloa at £8m before the first game were underwhelming at the time - they both turned out to be legends. Our cb signing was 80 year old Matt Upson. If I remember rightly, we missed out on a few targets. The signing of Esteban Cambiasso (and Danny Simpson) which came after the first game was the highlight but very much the only exciting signing of the summer.

 

2. We went into that season with a number of players who did us very well in the championship for a few seasons but naturally had question marks if they could make the step up. Drinkwater, James, Vardy, Nugent, Morgan, De Laet, Knockaert and Mahrez to name a few. We know quite a few exceeded expectations - Knockaert for me being the most surprising flop. With less time but still with similar questions, there is a wonder on how Fatawu, Mavididi, Winks,  Faes and Veste together react to the step up. Before the first game, that remains exciting. 
 

3. we go into this season with something we didn’t have a lot of in 14/15. Experience. Correct me if I’m wrong but recall only Konchesky and maybe Nugent being our players with previous PL experience. This time we have it in abundance. Ricardo, Veste, Faes, Winks, Ndidi all have PL and international experience. I would say more so than some of rivals. That is again a positive. 
 

4. Goals - the legend that is Vardy was no where near the legendary status in 14/15. He got 5 goals and so did Nuge. Ulloa our only player in double figures aided by a glut of goals at the start and end of the season. We had the once in the lifetime benefit of a 20 goal a season striker which most clubs in the EPL will never have. Brighton, Palace, Everton, Forest, Wolves etc. don’t have one. Team goals are going to be important and with Mavididi, Fatawu, Vardy, Reid, we hope we can get enough as a group. 
 

5. You hope the club and in particular the unfit for purpose leadership pulls out its finger and helps the manager and the squad by adding one or two quality players (a KDH replacement given they’ve had 12 months to consider would be nice), a couple of signings (not a glut) makes this squad look a lot better.

 

6. Cooper has been successful going back to basics and getting results with little emphasis on style. We have the difficult task of not knowing the points deduction but the magic number is 40 in normal seasons. Add on 6 more (to accommodate points deductions and other teams not getting there), that’s all we need. 
 

7. we are going into this season with a whole group of players with something to prove. Literally every single one has something personal to play for. Whether that be proving they are good enough at this level or hoping for a bigger move - that will play its part compared to when we had ****ing Tielemans in the middle. 
 

Let’s go!

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Time for the Pre-Match preview!

 

This season, I have started a YouTube channel and will be posting full videos on there as speaking through things and using examples is a LOT easier to do than typing things on the forum. However, old habbits die hard, so I will post a few things on here too!

 

Spurs will be a tough test for us given our current team and squad. Ange plays a very specific system that means we know almost exactly what to expect:

 

^ Spurs invert both their fullbacks into number 8 positions. This gives them a defensive "box" to build with and defend on transition, with potentially 6 men forwards in attack. The system gives them 6 men in attack if they can get the ball forwards:

 

^ Here they are up against Liverpool who have a 5 man press against their 4 man build-up structure. But we also see their inverted fullbacks providing additional passing opportunities to generate attacking superiorities. I have also shown an area of weakness. If we can turn the ball over, there are gaps on either side and with our fast and talented wingers, this gives us a potential attacking angle to exploit if we can win the ball back. It is a big if though!

 

 

^ Ange has totally transformed Spurs from a "sit back and soak it up" team under Nuno, Conte and Mourinho to a front-footed one. In fact last season, Spurs made the most attacking turnovers by any team in the league, more even than Klopp's Liverpool. They have pace in attack and will make it hard to play out from the back. Vestergaard may well sit this one out because of his lack of pace, though I worry somewhat without him or Ricardo in the team, as this severely impacts our ability to play through the press.

 

I think the game has a few key battles that could determine how the game goes.

 

 

 

In pre-season when we build, Ndidi pushes forwards, leaving Harry Winks as the sole pivot to receive, turn and make things happen. He's a great player, but this means that teams will target him as the key man to stop our build-up. Maddison has been great at pressing after being coached to do that by Rodgers when he was here, so he will be the one who is tasked to hunt him down and try to stop Winks. If Winks can get out of his press, it will act as a way to unlock Spurs, but if Maddison has the better of Winks, we will be in for a long day. We may also decide to tell Ndidi to be more conservative and make sure Winks has protection, which IMO would be the more sensible and pragmatic way to go.

 

 

 

Yves Bissouma has been left out of this game for an internal discipline breach. This means that either Archie Gray or Lucas Bergvall will probably come into the team as a number 6. I expect Gray given the fee paid for him, and think this is a battle that Ndidi will be selected for and possibly one that he could win. Ndidi can win the physical battle, and we could set pressing triggers and traps to lure Spurs into passing into Gray and try to target him.

 

Spurs have by far the superior team and squad, and I haven't mentioned Son, Kulusevski or Solanke here (but do in the video) which is a formidable frontline. Despite that with Hermansen's distribution and two good wingers, I'd give us a chance, even though I sadly expect a pretty routine win for Spurs.
 

If you do watch the video, please let me know what you think about it, I would appreciate the like / subscribe / comment tripple threat!

 

You can also follow the channel on Twitter too, even if it's a horrific social network!

@ForFoxSakeTV

 

Come on you Fantastic Foxes!

 

 

Somehow you succeeded in making me feel a little more hopeful for Monday, interesting options discussed in your video.  Agree with you on Mavididi as well.

[StriderHiryu]

7 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Somehow you succeeded in making me feel a little more hopeful for Monday, interesting options discussed in your video.  Agree with you on Mavididi as well.

Doesn't get much more optimistic than the average prediction being 4-0 to Spurs

 

We need the crowd to give the team some energy for this one!

[James_lcfc]

I’m still really looking forward to the game for some reason.

 

Definitely something wrong with me.

[JimJams]

4 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

I’m still really looking forward to the game for some reason.

 

Definitely something wrong with me.

I think the fact that all our expected survival rivals lost means this one now looks like a bit of a free hit.

It's not. It's a home game. But worse case scenario we're not being cut adrift from any of the pack after the first game.  Might not even finish the first game week at the bottom!

Edited 17 August by JimJams

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

UFS have something

Any Rudkin Out regalia yet?

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

You're a bit older and better looking than I imagined 

 

@StriderHiryu if you need an adult tag @davieG

[cruzFOX]

Look we desperately need points it’s that simple! Don’t care how we get them but we must get them. If our rivals are struggling we need to take advantage. They will eventually start winning games. Whatever we gain we will lose when the points deduction kicks in. Until that happens we just focus on the here and now. COYF!

[StriderHiryu]

Someone's just pointed out to me that Bentancur will start ahead of Gray even if Bissouma is injured.

 

Which makes me feel even more pessimistic!

[jimsmallman]

Dreading this game but I’m working while it’s on and we have a pretty good record of winning matches while I check this forum every thirty seconds. I’d take a draw. Especially as I work with Americans who for some reason “support” Spurs. 
 

(I shudder whenever anyone says they “support” a team when they just like them)

 

Maybe they’ll unveil a new signing on the pitch that we’re not expecting before the game, like they did Pontus Kamark (I think) back in the day. 
 

(They won’t)

 

I can see a Wilf screamer in this game for some reason. But equally, I’ve not been well. 

[Nick]

7 hours ago, jimsmallman said:

 

I can see a Wilf screamer in this game for some reason. But equally, I’ve not been well. 

Yeah, I’ve been thinking for days now that Winks might do exactly that. He was at Spurs for years and I think if he gets an opportunity to unleash he will be all over taking it with a point to prove. I mean he scored two goals last season this might be the one he scores this!

[StriderHiryu]

11 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Seeing the games today and despite the disappointment with what has been poor pre-season, its first game of the season so time to latch on to some positives.

 

1. our 14/15 preseason transfer business was actually quite underwhelming as this one. Albrighton on a free and Ulloa at £8m before the first game were underwhelming at the time - they both turned out to be legends. Our cb signing was 80 year old Matt Upson. If I remember rightly, we missed out on a few targets. The signing of Esteban Cambiasso (and Danny Simpson) which came after the first game was the highlight but very much the only exciting signing of the summer.

 

2. We went into that season with a number of players who did us very well in the championship for a few seasons but naturally had question marks if they could make the step up. Drinkwater, James, Vardy, Nugent, Morgan, De Laet, Knockaert and Mahrez to name a few. We know quite a few exceeded expectations - Knockaert for me being the most surprising flop. With less time but still with similar questions, there is a wonder on how Fatawu, Mavididi, Winks,  Faes and Veste together react to the step up. Before the first game, that remains exciting. 
 

3. we go into this season with something we didn’t have a lot of in 14/15. Experience. Correct me if I’m wrong but recall only Konchesky and maybe Nugent being our players with previous PL experience. This time we have it in abundance. Ricardo, Veste, Faes, Winks, Ndidi all have PL and international experience. I would say more so than some of rivals. That is again a positive. 
 

4. Goals - the legend that is Vardy was no where near the legendary status in 14/15. He got 5 goals and so did Nuge. Ulloa our only player in double figures aided by a glut of goals at the start and end of the season. We had the once in the lifetime benefit of a 20 goal a season striker which most clubs in the EPL will never have. Brighton, Palace, Everton, Forest, Wolves etc. don’t have one. Team goals are going to be important and with Mavididi, Fatawu, Vardy, Reid, we hope we can get enough as a group. 
 

5. You hope the club and in particular the unfit for purpose leadership pulls out its finger and helps the manager and the squad by adding one or two quality players (a KDH replacement given they’ve had 12 months to consider would be nice), a couple of signings (not a glut) makes this squad look a lot better.

 

6. Cooper has been successful going back to basics and getting results with little emphasis on style. We have the difficult task of not knowing the points deduction but the magic number is 40 in normal seasons. Add on 6 more (to accommodate points deductions and other teams not getting there), that’s all we need. 
 

7. we are going into this season with a whole group of players with something to prove. Literally every single one has something personal to play for. Whether that be proving they are good enough at this level or hoping for a bigger move - that will play its part compared to when we had ****ing Tielemans in the middle. 
 

Let’s go!

I don’t share your enthusiasm but I must say this is a very good post!

[Pliskin]

The biggest thing for me, is they will leave large amounts of space in behind. With Fatawu, Mavadidi, Ricardo and JJ we could exploit this. 
 

It’s going to be a shithouse win if anything, but that’s all I want! 

[JimmyC74]

Given we expect to have less possession and be under the cosh from opposition forwards for a large part of the season,  it may be time to dust off the old counter attack strategy.

(counter) attack, attack, attack.

Edited 18 August by JimmyC74

[coolhandfox]

We may get beat, but people are talking like we are playing prime Real Madrid.

 

 

[JimmyC74]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We may get beat, but people are talking like we are playing prime Real Madrid.

 

 

Isn’t it more a matter of (during preseason) not showing any form / organisation and no cutting edge.

 

I hope this is one of those cases where preseason is no indicator of future performance.

Edited 18 August by JimmyC74

[funkyrobot]

12 hours ago, JimJams said:

Yeh this is the formation I’d go with. Similar to Enzo’s way but with Ndidi slightly more defensive and with an attempt to bring Buonanotte centrally at times. I’d still try and invert Ricardo though when on the ball.
 

Cooper definitely won’t go with it though. No way he plays Cannon and I think he’ll bench Ricardo, Vesty and even Buonanotte. He’ll play Okoli, Hamza, Mavididi up front and he’ll fit BDCR in. As I say I wouldn’t be surprised if he went fully rogue and played Fatawu on his wrong side where he was anonymous when Cooper tried it in preseason. I think he’ll play Justin at RB and at left back he might even bring in Thomas. I thought he preferred VK but he mentioned that Thomas was back from injury so that might explain his absence. I really hope that his sticks with our best fullback in Ricardo and our best proven left back in Justin but pre season has really made me doubt Cooper’s approach to team selection. I think he’ll try and grind out a 0-0 with a predominantly non footballing defence and a triple CDM set up and it will fail. Hope I’m wrong.🤞

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

We may get beat, but people are talking like we are playing prime Real Madrid.

 

 

Squint and they might just look like that as the nutmeg Faes and do a one two around *checks notes* Mavididi as a false 9

Edited 18 August by Gamble92

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 hour ago, funkyrobot said:

Yeh this is the formation I’d go with. Similar to Enzo’s way but with Ndidi slightly more defensive and with an attempt to bring Buonanotte centrally at times. I’d still try and invert Ricardo though when on the ball.
 

The thing with inverting is you do need controlled possession to set it up and one of is weaknesses is it’s vulnerability in transition. 
 

I don’t expect us to have anywhere near the levels possession we had last year, plus we will playing teams that will be better at applying an aggressive press and pose a greater threat in transition - so I’m not convinced inverting our full back is the tactical answer this season.

 

We will need to be defensive solid first and foremost and whatever player rotations we look to use needs to be effective on quick transitions.

 

Mean, I think if Enzo was still with us even he would have evolved the way we played this year, perhaps by shortening the distance players travel in rotations in order to establish a stronger defensive base? 

 

You can already see at Chelsea that he’s actually got variety in his methods; for example against Inter, he pushed Gusto (right back) higher to join with Fernandez (playing a much less aggressive 8 role) to create a diamond midfield structure (Lavia holding, KDH in a 10 position).

 

So you know - I fully understand why many will have latched onto the idea of inverting a full-back given the success we had with it last season; but we face a very different challenge this season and so that tactical idea might not be the best for us now.

[funkyrobot]

22 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

The thing with inverting is you do need controlled possession to set it up and one of is weaknesses is it’s vulnerability in transition. 
 

I don’t expect us to have anywhere near the levels possession we had last year, plus we will playing teams that will be better at applying an aggressive press and pose a greater threat in transition - so I’m not convinced inverting our full back is the tactical answer this season.

 

We will need to be defensive solid first and foremost and whatever player rotations we look to use needs to be effective on quick transitions.

 

Mean, I think if Enzo was still with us even he would have evolved the way we played this year, perhaps by shortening the distance players travel in rotations in order to establish a stronger defensive base? 

 

You can already see at Chelsea that he’s actually got variety in his methods; for example against Inter, he pushed Gusto (right back) higher to join with Fernandez (playing a much less aggressive 8 role) to create a diamond midfield structure (Lavia holding, KDH in a 10 position).

 

So you know - I fully understand why many will have latched onto the idea of inverting a full-back given the success we had with it last season; but we face a very different challenge this season and so that tactical idea might not be the best for us now.

I’m not saying deploy it continually but try and utilise it where possible, keep it as an option. Particularly when our squad is built to play that way and we aren’t able to make wholesale changes despite Cooper demanding it. The invert does still leave 3 at the back with a pivot ahead so it’s not exactly kamikaze, particularly when Fatawu is happy to provide support. You do have to try and win games and Cooper’s more defensive set up definitely did not work against Lens. Set up to draw or snatch a win with a defence like ours is likely to be as risky as some of our attempts to beat the press last season.

[CosbehFox]

Spurs still have some major defensive flaws. Set pieces and high line in particular. Made some howling playing out for the back errors during pre season too 

[Bert]

Just know Maddison’s gonna run the game and have one of his best games of the season. 
 

Was utter guff every time he played against Norwich for us. Never works the same when it’s against. Ex players always have a stormer. Players playing for us against their old clubs are always terrible.