3 games in, 1 point, overall assessment …

[Legend_in_blue]

We've been far too defensive today against the opposition.

 

What happens when we go to Villa Park?  6 points most likely down the drain when if we're actually going for teams at home could be at most 3 down the drain.

 

Far too conservative in his approach.  We should be going for it at home.

[South Shire Fox]

A lot more confident we can stay up from seeing some of our play at times in the game. However the manager has got to stop setting up a team to be so negative, especially at home. We are giving teams far too much respect that dont deserve it.

We dont need to go hell for leather but have to have fast and creative players on the pitch to hurt the opposition when we break. Apart from Fatawu we had none of that today in the starting 11. They were there for the taking today and we made it far too easy for them defensively.

Edited 31 August by South Shire Fox

[Realist Guy In The Room]

28 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Cooper so far has reminded me of Luis Enrique at Barcelona - traditional back 4 and a flattish midfield 3 focused on winning and retaining possession. However this was fine in the attacking third for them because their front 3 was Suarez, Neymar and Messi. We're a bit short of that kind of quality atm, Vardy aside.

Literally spilt coke all over myself reading that

[Livid]

Second half against Spurs and today I thought we held our own. I haven’t seen the Fulham performance but it sounded flat. We need to get cuter and someone needs to go down with a head injury if there’s any contact and we’re under a bit of pressure. 

 

Wilf can’t play in the position he played today. The midfield that finished  today should probably have been the midfield that started and the one we keep.
 

Very low expectations coming into the season and with that in mind I think we’re doing OK. 

[Guy]

Not sure what our points deduction will be come the time but regardless of that then I have a nagging feeling that we could be this Prem season's Luton from last season. Hopefully there are three worse teams than us this season who keep us afloat still though, given the way we've battled so far - and if so then we can begin to establish ourselves at this level again like we did a decade ago! 

[The Doctor]

45 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Literally spilt coke all over myself reading that

like if you picked up a Luis Enrique from Etsy perhaps

[TrentFox]

With a likely points deduction, we may need to win 13 games …. out of the remaining 35. Better than one in three. I just don’t see us doing that with the ultra conservative starting elevens being selected . Cooper has won one of his last 16 PL fixtures, I think? Hugely alarming. We have to be more positive and daring. He seems to think our route to victory is to hang in there, and steal something at the end. Personally, I think that stinks. It will be a bitterly disappointing season if that mindset wins the day. Which might be all it wins.  Change of approach urgently required.

[Mon.is.a.god]

I feel like I’ll be in the minority but I’m really optimistic after yesterday’s game. We look the fittest we’ve been in years, we’ve scored in every game so far and could’ve had more in the Villa and Spurs games which is encouraging. We look so much more solid as a defensive unit, especially from set pieces bar Villa’s well worked free kick today which would’ve caught any team unawares and most importantly the players are clearly playing for Cooper and look very determined to win the ball and stop the opposition from scoring.

 

Coopers only fault is his lack of belief. If he grew a set and set us up to attack from the off, I believe we’ll survive this season (even with the points deduction). I’m only hazarding a guess but I’m thinking he’s looked to make us solid at the back as a staring point and then slowly integrate us into a more attacking team as the squad settles and the new players gel. I doubt Cooper is naive enough to carry on with the same modus operandi going forward (excuse the pun), especially at home. I feel away games will be Coopers Achilles heel as we saw against Fulham, but hope he can dare to dream and go for it home and away from the start.

 

Dare I say it, today was more entertaining than any game under Enzo last season, even when we won big. I was bored every game under Enzo, constantly distracted by my phone checking other scores to pass the time. Yesterday not once did I get my phone out and was gripped to the match throughout. Even though the atmosphere was still below sub par, I can’t remember one game last season where we had as much noise from all stands. Most fans were still all upbeat despite the loss.

 

I beg anyone to watch the highlights from Brentford vs Southampton and you’ll see what playing out from the back achieves in this league as a newly promoted team and that’s ignoring Burnley's stubborn approach last season which ultimately decided their fate. I appreciate we still play out from the back on occasions but not to the level as we did last season with Mads so nonchalant on the ball and our defenders playing fancy triangles in our own box.

 

You can shove your Maresca ball where the sun don’t shine, Cooper in!!

Edited 1 September by Mon.is.a.god

[The Doctor]

18 minutes ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

Dare I say it, today was more entertaining than any game under Enzo last season, even when we won big. I was bored every game under Enzo, constantly distracted by my phone checking other scores to pass the time. Yesterday not once did I get my phone out and was gripped to the match throughout. 

in what way was yesterday more entertaining than anything we served up last season? the first 60 minutes were absolutely dire, we handled the ball with less care than a professional dominatrix. the only way you could enjoy that more than playing technically impressive football is if what you enjoy is big tackles and last ditch defending, in which case, Sunday league games are generally free to watch.

[Guppys Love Child]

1 hour ago, TrentFox said:

With a likely points deduction, we may need to win 13 games …. out of the remaining 35. Better than one in three. I just don’t see us doing that with the ultra conservative starting elevens being selected . Cooper has won one of his last 16 PL fixtures, I think? Hugely alarming. We have to be more positive and daring. He seems to think our route to victory is to hang in there, and steal something at the end. Personally, I think that stinks. It will be a bitterly disappointing season if that mindset wins the day. Which might be all it wins.  Change of approach urgently required.

I Whole heartedly agree..

 

We are so much better than that, as our/the more 'attack minded' team that finished the game yesterday showed. 

 

Its baffling that he doesn't see this, when so many others do, and if he does see it, then its "effing" infuriating that he won't adopt a system and team selection of that ilk from the start to give us a fighting chance in a game, and not have to play catch up.

 

 

[wardyfox86]

I just can't see where 12 or so wins that we require will come from without taking games to teams at home. Coupled with Cooper's away record it's hard to see 30 points without even taking into account the points deduction.

 

The bottom 6 already look like the mini league for relegation and Palace strengthened well on deadline day. Can we pick up points where they can't?

[Sooper Steve's shin]

Clear plan so far has been to start solid and use game changers/finishers - and it has worked, to a degree. We have finished both home games stronger. I like how Mavididi has played when he’s come on, but I don’t know if he would be doing that from the off if he started. He works well against a tired full back, but he may get frustrated and found out if he started (and arguably that is happening to Fatuwu a bit at the moment).

It’s fairly pragmatic management from Cooper that is not necessarily setting pulses racing but could work out better for us in the longer term than going too gung-ho and getting smashed. Spurs (especially) and Villa would have battered us on the counter if we started too aggressively and we could have had two heavy defeats. Southampton’s game this weekend showed the naivety of trying to play the same way as in the Championship. 
 

The international break has come at a good time to take stock and hopefully tweak things to come out stronger. We have much more attacking options than a few weeks ago and some of those will have to play a role as impact players. Hopefully, there can be an adjustment to bring a little more creativity from the outset - Buonanotte (or another attack minded midfielder) in for Ndidi from this weekend’s starting lineup seems to make sense, Wilf was a bit lost with Winks and Skipp controlling the centre and we know he doesn’t have the skills at this level to be a 10. I think one of Mav or Fats in the starting XI is fine with a more disciplined player on the other side. We can mix it up, but Mavididi probably deserves a run at starting. 
 

Edouard or Ayew could be reasonable starting options up front with Vardy coming on late for impact/nuisance value. I think Ayew has looked decent enough and could also fill in wide or behind - he has the experience and a bit of PL knowledge that we lack otherwise. 
 

I would be happy to give Okoli more time. He wasn’t standout today but largely fine and offers more pace and a natural left sided CB that we don’t otherwise have. In order of preference as partner, I would say Coady then Vestergaard and then Faes. The latter is too prone to mistakes, not disciplined enough for the PL. I though Vestergaard did well first two games and he would be fine but Coady gives a little extra comfort and leadership. At full-back, I’d probably go with Ricky and JJ - Kristiansen has been fine and could come in for either of them (with the other switching to the right). 
 

Couple of other positives to finish: first, how Cooper speaks after games. Very clear, no blame and no hiding. It’s quite refreshing, especially compared to BS Brendan. The other thing is mixing it up - the obvious comparison here is Maresca, who would only ever switch like for like with subs. Against Villa, Cooper brought on Buonanotte, El Khannous, Mavididi, McAteer and Decordova-Reid while taking off the likes of Skipp, Ndid and Okoli. Five attacking subs and Vardy played the whole game! It didn’t work out in the end but it wasn’t for want of trying. 

[Mon.is.a.god]

19 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

in what way was yesterday more entertaining than anything we served up last season? the first 60 minutes were absolutely dire, we handled the ball with less care than a professional dominatrix. the only way you could enjoy that more than playing technically impressive football is if what you enjoy is big tackles and last ditch defending, in which case, Sunday league games are generally free to watch.

I guess you didn’t enjoy the majority of the 2015/16 season?

 

And you conveniently ignored my fact about Burnley last season and Southampton thus far. “Technically impressive football” yay we passed the ball between ourselves with the square root of f all!

 

 

Edited 1 September by Mon.is.a.god

[dayday]

Villa was there for the taking, we’ve no chance of staying up if we carry on with these negative line ups 

 

Cooper needs to back the lads and go for broke against teams we can beat 

 

We know a deduction is coming, so don’t get his mindset, he was the sane at Forest so that’s a worry 

[The Doctor]

5 minutes ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

I guess you didn’t enjoy the majority of the 2015/16 season?

 

And you conveniently ignored my fact about Burnley last season and Southampton thus far. “Technically impressive football” yay we passed the ball between ourselves with the square root of f all!

 

 

come off it, in 2015/16 we were perfectly good with the ball and had a clear tactical plan based around a catenaccio style, first half yesterday there was no tactical plan, it wasnt playing quickly through the lines, it was just giving up possession and chances at will, and Mads kept the score line respectable. Anyone who watched the first 60 minutes of us hanging on, creating nothing beyond a 30yd pea roller from Skipp and thought "that was great to watch" is off their rocker.

[Dahnsouff]

Picking out individual moments and declaring it as failure is flawed in isolation as the game, the plan if you like, is made for 90 minutes not 2 minutes here and there.

There is some sense in what Cooper is trying to do, keep it tight, unleash the attackers on tired defenders, and get something from the game, but I am unconvinced it’s practical with the quality of defenders we have, and I also cannot see how starting one of our AM’s instead of Wilf would lose us much solidity either.

But now it is time to get the tactical plan solidified during the 2 week break now all transfers are in house and training together.

[The Doctor]

creating nothing isn't an exaggeration either, the timing charts are absolutely hideous for this season

 

 

Spurs - absolutely nothing before the Vardy goal, decent late rally with another big vardy chance but at home opening day and we created no chances before 55 minutes

 

 

Fulham, second best all day, wouts goal the only chance of note and then we didn't manage so much as another shot for half an hour.

 

 

Villa, honestly completely grim, 1 shot in the first half, absolutely nothing of not beyond speculative 1 in 100 efforts until the 70th minute.

 

this is a team with no attacking intent until it's far far too late

[Sol thewall Bamba]

8 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

creating nothing isn't an exaggeration either, the timing charts are absolutely hideous for this season

 

 

Spurs - absolutely nothing before the Vardy goal, decent late rally with another big vardy chance but at home opening day and we created no chances before 55 minutes

 

 

Fulham, second best all day, wouts goal the only chance of note and then we didn't manage so much as another shot for half an hour.

 

 

Villa, honestly completely grim, 1 shot in the first half, absolutely nothing of not beyond speculative 1 in 100 efforts until the 70th minute.

 

this is a team with no attacking intent until it's far far too late

That's grim reading. 

[Pliskin]

There’s potential for this team to be exciting. You can see this, but Cooper is just getting his balance wrong. His ideas are good, but his execution poor. There’s a week to sort it, but I really think if we lose to palace he’s got to go, and be replaced with Moyes (if he wants it). The teams capable of staying up, we can’t waste the opportunity to do so, otherwise we will go down, and it will be ****ing hell on earth because the EFL will fetch our pants down like never before. 

[Mon.is.a.god]

11 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

come off it, in 2015/16 we were perfectly good with the ball and had a clear tactical plan based around a catenaccio style, first half yesterday there was no tactical plan, it wasnt playing quickly through the lines, it was just giving up possession and chances at will, and Mads kept the score line respectable. Anyone who watched the first 60 minutes of us hanging on, creating nothing beyond a 30yd pea roller from Skipp and thought "that was great to watch" is off their rocker.

Again you clearly ignored the majority of my post where I stated we set up too negatively and should’ve been more positive from the start but of course that doesn’t suit your narrative. I wouldn’t be too quick to judge. Villa are a top 4 side and all things considering, we kept them fairly quiet. Wait till we play a team at “our level” at home before hitting the panic button.

 

It sounds like you’ve got unrealistic expectations of where this team is currently at and the quality of the opposition and league we’re in judging by your dismissive and stubborn replies. We’ve got a new manager, new players and a limited budget in comparison to our counterparts.
 

I’m a positive person by default. I always look at the good first rather than the bad and am happy to give the manager time and in the mean time get behind the team and not spout negativity just because we don’t play like Man City.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

That's grim reading. 

Yet very familiar reading to any Forest fans who watched them play away in 2022/23. 

[The Doctor]

6 minutes ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

Again you clearly ignored the majority of my post where I stated we set up too negatively and should’ve been more positive from the start but of course that doesn’t suit your narrative. I wouldn’t be too quick to judge. Villa are a top 4 side and all things considering, we kept them fairly quiet. Wait till we play a team at “our level” at home before hitting the panic button.

 

It sounds like you’ve got unrealistic expectations of where this team is currently at and the quality of the opposition and league we’re in judging by your dismissive and stubborn replies. We’ve got a new manager, new players and a limited budget in comparison to our counterparts.
 

I’m a positive person by default. I always look at the good first rather than the bad and am happy to give the manager time and in the mean time get behind the team and not spout negativity just because we don’t play like Man City.

my expectations are starting some attacking players trying to create a chance before the hour mark at home and generally having a plan for how we're going to approach games. if that's unrealistic then why are we even bothering to play this season?

[Mon.is.a.god]

26 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

creating nothing isn't an exaggeration either, the timing charts are absolutely hideous for this season

 

 

Spurs - absolutely nothing before the Vardy goal, decent late rally with another big vardy chance but at home opening day and we created no chances before 55 minutes

 

 

Fulham, second best all day, wouts goal the only chance of note and then we didn't manage so much as another shot for half an hour.

 

 

Villa, honestly completely grim, 1 shot in the first half, absolutely nothing of not beyond speculative 1 in 100 efforts until the 70th minute.

 

this is a team with no attacking intent until it's far far too late

Welcome to the premier league. Give it a little more time and judge after half a season.

 

Anyone can use stats to paint a narrative. Funny how you’re selecting stats such as “up to 70 minutes” discrediting anything positive as you obviously can’t stand the thought of us being good.

 

You’re part of the problem as a modern day negative football fan. I’d hate to have your mindset. 
 

Whilst we’re at it, look at these stats below. What was the scoreline?

Edited 1 September by Mon.is.a.god

[The Doctor]

Just now, Mon.is.a.god said:

Welcome to the premier league. Give it a little more time and judge after half a season.

 

Anyone can use stats to paint a narrative. Funny how you’re selecting stats such as “up to 70 minutes” discrediting anything positive as you obviously can’t stand the thought of us being good.

 

You’re part of the problem

as a modern day negative football fan. I’d hate to have your mindset. 
 

Whilst we’re at it, look at these stats below. What was the scoreline?

impossible to tell as there's no meaningful stats in there. this is fun, let's look at some actual stats from that game:

 

 

Looks like Russell Martin just isn't a particularly good manager, who have a lot of the ball among their cbs (hence the 14.57 passes in the Southampton half before a defensive action from Brentford) but can't create shit with it.

 

I would like us to be good, and I've given credit where it's due with the late rallys however not starting to attack until we're well beaten isn't particularly good.

[Richmondfox]

He won’t realise but Cooper is setting us up to fail with his poor tactics, team selection and then on top, putting less skilled/wrong players in those positions so we have even less of a chance if we do manage to get into good positions.
 

The last 3 games he has made the same mistakes, to me that’s a trend. If he does it against Palace and we don’t start Mav, Bac, Ricardo and leave Ndidi out then I can’t see him changing and that will just confirm that he is useless. 
 

Needs to be raked over the coals by the RL for his poor decisions constantly, get actual answers not mumbling sound bites.