Ricky P

[Number 6]

I actually can understand why he's not currently been playing - I'm not sure he's the full length of the pitch full back he once was. As a RB he'd have to be more like Simpson was for us and pretty much stop at the half way line. Also don't see him as a make shift CB so can again see that logic.

 

It's a fair criticism of the current system that we're not looking to fit in one of our better players though. The big argument for using an inverted full back is that is suits Ricardo so well, but he's also shown that he can be decent as an 8 too.

 

With the current set up the only way I see him being used would be in the middle alongside Winks but not sure he'd be selected there ahead of Skipp. 

[RoboFox]

Strong Rodgers / Ward managerial stubbornness vibes about this situation. 
 

Edited 1 September by RoboFox

[the draper]

Word from seagrave is he has a small niggle much to do about nothing, he will he back playing soon in premier league, Saudi sniffing around so might be a big money transfer at some stage 

[Lesterlad]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

I actually can understand why he's not currently been playing - I'm not sure he's the full length of the pitch full back he once was. As a RB he'd have to be more like Simpson was for us and pretty much stop at the half way line. Also don't see him as a make shift CB so can again see that logic.

 

It's a fair criticism of the current system that we're not looking to fit in one of our better players though. The big argument for using an inverted full back is that is suits Ricardo so well, but he's also shown that he can be decent as an 8 too.

 

With the current set up the only way I see him being used would be in the middle alongside Winks but not sure he'd be selected there ahead of Skipp. 

What ever qualities he may have or may not have he is far superior to the cart horse that is now Justin. At least 3 of the goals against us this season is as been down his side. He as been woeful at times. Surely you pick your best players and team and worry about the opposition later. Ricardo is a better defender by far and the role of a full back is to defend first and foremost. 

[Number 6]

2 hours ago, Lesterlad said:

What ever qualities he may have or may not have he is far superior to the cart horse that is now Justin. At least 3 of the goals against us this season is as been down his side. He as been woeful at times. Surely you pick your best players and team and worry about the opposition later. Ricardo is a better defender by far and the role of a full back is to defend first and foremost. 

Nothing to do with opposition, in my opinion Ricardo isn't as well suited to the full back roles we're currently asking Kristiansen and Justin to do, even if he is technically a better footballer.

[Suzie the Fox]

It just doesn't seem to add up. There must be more to it that we don't know. 

[moore_94]

If he hasn't got the fitness to play the full back game in the Prem anymore then he should be used as the main back up to Winks and Skipp in centre mid ahead of Wilf, Hamza and Soumare

 

The problem we then have is though that we would be very weak at full back as the only cover we would have is Thomas

[Clever Fox]

4 hours ago, the draper said:

Word from seagrave is he has a small niggle much to do about nothing, he will he back playing soon in premier league, Saudi sniffing around so might be a big money transfer at some stage 

If we're not going to play him then we should cash in before he's another year older. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

4 hours ago, the draper said:

Word from seagrave is he has a small niggle much to do about nothing, he will he back playing soon in premier league, Saudi sniffing around so might be a big money transfer at some stage 

However managed to start the game on Tuesday night and despite having a niggle continues to be named on the bench, makes no sense whatsoever. He has been largely out of favour since his mistake cost a goal against Palermo. Cooper is stubborn with his view of wanting to attack with his left sided full back rather than just flip his tactic and use the right hand side. His seeming obsession with not selecting Mavididi in the starting line up in the prem is equally concerning. He prefers work horses over quality hence our complete lack of creativity and attacking intent in most 1st half performances. 

[Ric Flair]

18 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I actually can understand why he's not currently been playing - I'm not sure he's the full length of the pitch full back he once was. As a RB he'd have to be more like Simpson was for us and pretty much stop at the half way line. Also don't see him as a make shift CB so can again see that logic.

 

It's a fair criticism of the current system that we're not looking to fit in one of our better players though. The big argument for using an inverted full back is that is suits Ricardo so well, but he's also shown that he can be decent as an 8 too.

 

With the current set up the only way I see him being used would be in the middle alongside Winks but not sure he'd be selected there ahead of Skipp. 

Justin's role isn't a full length of the pitch full back either. He's being asked to sit a lot of the time and it's Kristiansen that is up and down.

 

I could understand Cooper's decision a bit more if he was deploying tactics that would require Ricardo to defend and attack relentlessly. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

I know he comes across well Cooper as a bloke but this is either sheer incompetence or arrogance not to play Ricky P and has already cost us points. 

 

If one has to go it's Clueless Copper. 

[Dahnsouff]

Would argue that JJ is a bit more rugged than Ricky, this or fitness/form are the only possible reasons I can see for not playing him.

[The Doctor]

32 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Would argue that JJ is a bit more rugged than Ricky, this or fitness/form are the only possible reasons I can see for not playing him.

this might be a bit of a false memory but I could swear JJ has had a similar number of setbacks since he also did his ACL?

[Dahnsouff]

16 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

this might be a bit of a false memory but I could swear JJ has had a similar number of setbacks since he also did his ACL?

No he did, he had some terrible injury setbacks, but I meant I feel JJ seems to ‘put himself about’ a bit more than Ricky, who is clearly technically superior. Might be a false impression on my part though.

[ian__marshall]

On 31/08/2024 at 19:33, JimJams said:

The worst thing about this is it's a tactical decision and it makes no sense. 

Cooper clearly likes the idea of one of the fullbacks to push up the wing and help out in an attacking sense.

He's chosen to make that VK, despite the fact Ricardo is better than VK in all aspects, especially attacking.  And because he's decided to use VK, presumably because he wants his left winger to come further inside and thinks it's better for Mav/Reid/Ayew to do that than Fatawu, it means the RB has to become an RCB when the LB pushes up.  And so he's obviously decided that JJ is better at dropping in as a makeshift CB than Ricardo.

The other issue with this is that VK has been pretty poor playing high up the pitch, and only looked good (like the rest of the team) in the second halves vs Spurs and Villa. In both second halves Cooper made an adjustment and VK was playing further inside, not as far up, and only occasionally moving into that LWB role but more often sitting closer to the other mdifielders.  Which is similar to the inverted fullback moving in as a DM. Ricardos role last season.  So the high fullback system isn't really working and has been largely abandoned in the second half of games and we've looked better for it.

 

So the other problem is that Cooper is setting up ultra defensive.  We're starting games with 3 DMs.  So if you want that extra assurance in the midfield then surely having Ricardo playing the role he did last season as in inverted RB that drops in alongside Winks makes a ton of sense.  It gives us that DM Cooper craves and hell we could still effectively have 3 DM's with Winks, Skipp and Riccy P dropping in and thus allowing us to add a creative player in the mix.  You could even drop Winks and have 2 attacking players!

 

Cooper seems to be handicapping us by not using him because in his mind his tactical plan is best suited to the other options. But the evidence proves it's not.  The things Cooper wants to achieve, whether it's having a high fullback to help in the attack or a more solid group in the middle of the park BOTH can be achieved with Ricardo better than the alternatives.  But he can't see it.

Good observations, I agree. What's most bizarre about the Riccy situation is that the system is crying out for him. I'm not against this principle that Cooper has employed where the FB pushes forward into midfield but it has to be fluid, I.e. able to be deployed down both sides with the opposite FB tucking in when the other goes.

 

At the moment everything goes down the left and on Saturday it became a bit predictable and VK in all honesty isn't the most productive either. If we had Riccy on the right we could really mix up our attacking plays and still achieve the overloads we're looking for.

 

My only concern is that I'm not convinced VK has the awareness to recognise that when the ball switches play and Riccy goes forward he has to drop, which would be a big problem as there's no way our CBs are good enough to a 3 or 4 v 2 situation if the ball is turned over. 

[SK3Blue]

Certainly not the player he was after the bad injuries but then neither is Ndidi. 
 

Cooper has already shown he has ‘tunnel vision’ and seems to be learning on the job, needs to open his eyes to Ricardo and stop this nonsense with Ndidi, Skipp and Winks. 

[cityfanlee23]

18 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Nothing to do with opposition, in my opinion Ricardo isn't as well suited to the full back roles we're currently asking Kristiansen and Justin to do, even if he is technically a better footballer.

The real argument boils down to is the position they are being asked to play benefitting us more than just allowing Ricardo to play a role that suits him. 
But also, I really can't think of a single system in football that Justin could play better than Ricky. 

[daddylonglegs]

I'm desperate for Cooper to do well but he is shooting himself in the foot in so many areas, none more so than with Ricardo.

 

Play him at RB, LB, CDM, CAM or RW and he immediately improves the team, and yet he chooses not to. Bizarre.

[notnow john]

21 hours ago, the draper said:

Word from seagrave is he has a small niggle much to do about nothing, he will he back playing soon in premier league, Saudi sniffing around so might be a big money transfer at some stage 

How blessed are we, another ITK!

May be curtains for this one.

[the draper]

1 hour ago, notnow john said:

How blessed are we, another ITK!

May be curtains for this one.

Not ITK at all 

Never said I was 

[Number 6]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Justin's role isn't a full length of the pitch full back either. He's being asked to sit a lot of the time and it's Kristiansen that is up and down.

 

I could understand Cooper's decision a bit more if he was deploying tactics that would require Ricardo to defend and attack relentlessly. 

Yeh he's definitely not suited to the Kristiansen role, I guess it's whether he can sit narrow and defend better than Justin, which I'm sure many would make a case for. I don't think either are the ideal Ricardo position.

 

Cooper seems to be moving towards more athleticism and physical attributes in our team across the whole pitch too, which I think is counting against Ricardo.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, the draper said:

Not ITK at all 

Never said I was 

Thats what all ITK say.

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

The real argument boils down to is the position they are being asked to play benefitting us more than just allowing Ricardo to play a role that suits him. 
But also, I really can't think of a single system in football that Justin could play better than Ricky. 

I think Justin could be deployed as a more up and down full back than Ricardo could. Admittedly I don't know how well his knee would hold up but he's more athletic than Ricky. I think this is where the JJ at LB and Ricardo and RB calls are coming from.

 

It does seem as huge oversight to not even try the inverted full back though. We played it reasonably well for a while season, had the best defence in the league, and had a player perfect for the role.