Premier League cannot take action against the club for exceeding the relevant PSR threshold

[st albans fox]

59 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

I thought Newly promoted clubs were given the full £105m allowance.

Borsan indicated that it was 35 for the promotion season (to June 24) and then whatever they were entitled to for the previous two. Ipswich would have 61m in that case and would be miles below it. For this season they would still have 61m whereas we would have 83m. On the basis that they would have been budgeting to fit below 39m, you can see why they’ve been able to spend a lot on fees with that additional 22m to play with. 

[st albans fox]

Something says nagging away in my mind 

 

If we’re claiming that the PL cannot charge us because we were a championship club then why can’t the EFL charge us? 
 

This would open up lots of nuances 

 

an elf sanction could be either a fine or a points deduction for when we are next relegated- neither of these are a benefit for the PL.   if the EFL apply a sanction for 19/20 to 21/22 period then if we breach psr within the next two years in the PL, they couldn’t apply any sanction for the years already dealt with under double jeopardy. 
 

I think that the PL will actually allow the EFL to take on the overspend if they’re minded to take on the potential legal spend.  Their public declarations that we must be  punished demand that they do something. If they do nothing then I wonder if that indicates the PL believe we will breach to 2024 and want the previous two years available for sanctions to be applied. 

[ClaphamFox]

11 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Something says nagging away in my mind 

 

If we’re claiming that the PL cannot charge us because we were a championship club then why can’t the EFL charge us? 
 

This would open up lots of nuances 

 

an elf sanction could be either a fine or a points deduction for when we are next relegated- neither of these are a benefit for the PL.   if the EFL apply a sanction for 19/20 to 21/22 period then if we breach psr within the next two years in the PL, they couldn’t apply any sanction for the years already dealt with under double jeopardy. 
 

I think that the PL will actually allow the EFL to take on the overspend if they’re minded to take on the potential legal spend.  Their public declarations that we must be  punished demand that they do something. If they do nothing then I wonder if that indicates the PL believe we will breach to 2024 and want the previous two years available for sanctions to be applied. 

I don't think we'll breach for 2023/24, so I think the PL will allow the EFL to go after us for 2020-23. Unless we find another clever way out of getting out of it (and I wouldn't put it past us), this will likely result in some kind of sanction being imposed by the EFL. It will be interesting to see whether they ask us to pay a fine while we're in the PL (as they did with after our promotion in 2013/14) or impose a deferred points deduction that sits waiting for us in the event of relegation. My hunch is that if we're struggling in the league when they make the decision, they'll probably choose the latter.

 

So getting relegated would not only hit our spending capability with another year in the EFL, we'd also likely have to start with a points deduction. We'd best get some points on the board, hadn't we?! 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Something says nagging away in my mind 

 

If we’re claiming that the PL cannot charge us because we were a championship club then why can’t the EFL charge us? 
 

This would open up lots of nuances 

 

an elf sanction could be either a fine or a points deduction for when we are next relegated- neither of these are a benefit for the PL.   if the EFL apply a sanction for 19/20 to 21/22 period then if we breach psr within the next two years in the PL, they couldn’t apply any sanction for the years already dealt with under double jeopardy. 
 

I think that the PL will actually allow the EFL to take on the overspend if they’re minded to take on the potential legal spend.  Their public declarations that we must be  punished demand that they do something. If they do nothing then I wonder if that indicates the PL believe we will breach to 2024 and want the previous two years available for sanctions to be applied. 

Which accounting period are you concerned about? 

Edited 6 September by coolhandfox

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Something says nagging away in my mind 

 

If we’re claiming that the PL cannot charge us because we were a championship club then why can’t the EFL charge us? 
 

This would open up lots of nuances 

 

an elf sanction could be either a fine or a points deduction for when we are next relegated- neither of these are a benefit for the PL.   if the EFL apply a sanction for 19/20 to 21/22 period then if we breach psr within the next two years in the PL, they couldn’t apply any sanction for the years already dealt with under double jeopardy. 
 

I think that the PL will actually allow the EFL to take on the overspend if they’re minded to take on the potential legal spend.  Their public declarations that we must be  punished demand that they do something. If they do nothing then I wonder if that indicates the PL believe we will breach to 2024 and want the previous two years available for sanctions to be applied. 

 

The EFL absolutely will be waiting for us if/when we go down I don't think there's much doubt about that. 

 

But they can't impose any competitive penalties while we're not in their league. 

 

I mean, all the more reason the Premier League being a separate entity is a travesty tbf but that's another issue. 

 

[AKCJ]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

The EFL absolutely will be waiting for us if/when we go down I don't think there's much doubt about that. 

 

But they can't impose any competitive penalties while we're not in their league. 

 

I mean, all the more reason the Premier League being a separate entity is a travesty tbf but that's another issue. 

 

I don't think that's the case.

 

Sheffield United were deducted 2 points last season before they were relegated.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11683/13112931/sheffield-united-will-face-a-points-deduction-for-their-next-season-in-the-efl-when-relegated-from-premier-league

[Les-TA-Jon]

Just now, AKCJ said:

I don't think that's the case.

 

Sheffield United were deducted 2 points last season before they were relegated.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11683/13112931/sheffield-united-will-face-a-points-deduction-for-their-next-season-in-the-efl-when-relegated-from-premier-league

They can give punishments whilst we're in the PL, yes. But they can only apply once we're back in the EFL. 

[Basildon Fox]

4 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

So this does confirm that the allowable loss for 3-year rolling period ending 23/24 is £83m not the 'normal' £105m? Because of the season in the EFL? 

 

I thought I'd seen some reporting/rules/quotes saying there was confusion over whether it was £83m or £105m? 

I have read that if clubs come back up within a 2 year period after being relegated, they are allowed to make losses of £105m. 

 

I suppose it depends on the established time spent in the Prem.  We were in for 8 years so our loss allowance would be £105m.

[drew]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The EFL absolutely will be waiting for us if/when we go down I don't think there's much doubt about that. 

 

But they can't impose any competitive penalties while we're not in their league. 

 

I mean, all the more reason the Premier League being a separate entity is a travesty tbf but that's another issue. 

 

What number would they be looking at for losses, theirs levels or the EPL? Can they suspend punishments if they were supposed to be metered out this year? Its all very wishy washy, and that's the issue with the rules they have written.

Could we argue the reverse, at year end we were an EPL club bound by their rules, that would be amusing....

Edited 6 September by drew
more info

[coolhandfox]

There will be a lot of posturing by the EFL about our PL PSR breach avoidance, but I think it is unlikely they can do anything about it. 

 

I also think they will be rubbing their hands together, thinking we will breach for 23/24 as we wouldn't share our business plan.

 

Fortunately, I think we will be within the allowed losses for the EFL. 

 

I imagine that with the current record LCFC 2 - PL/EFL 0, the EFL would want a watertight case to try to charge us for our PL breach, but I think that is highly unlikely as they would be in unprecedented waters. 

 

They will probably make sure no one else can use this loophole. 

Edited 6 September by coolhandfox

[jammie82uk]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

But they can't impose any competitive penalties while we're not in their league. 

The EFL rules state this

 

 

87.4 Where a Promoted Championship Club, or any Official or Director of that Promoted Championship Club, at the point at which it becomes a member of the Premier League, is subject to an investigation by The League for alleged breaches of any aligned provisions within the Premier League Rules, the responsibility for that investigation will pass to the Premier League and the provisions of that Premier League Rule will apply.

Disputes – Promoted and Relegated Clubs

87.5 Where a Relegated PL Club, at the point it ceases to be member of the Premier League and becomes a member of The League in accordance with Regulation 10.1, is engaged in a dispute with the Premier League in relation to any aspect of the application of Premier League Rules E.45 to E.64, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of the Premier League may pass to The League, to be resolved in accordance with these Regulations.

87.6 Where a Promoted Championship Club, at the point at which it becomes a member of the Premier League pursuant to Premier League Rule B.4, is engaged in a dispute with The League in relation to any aspect the application of the relevant aligned Regulations by The League, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of The League may pass to the Premier League.

Edited 6 September by jammie82uk

[Harboro]

35 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Disputes – Promoted and Relegated Clubs

87.5 Where a Relegated PL Club, at the point it ceases to be member of the Premier League and becomes a member of The League in accordance with Regulation 10.1, is engaged in a dispute with the Premier League in relation to any aspect of the application of Premier League Rules E.45 to E.64, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of the Premier League may pass to The League, to be resolved in accordance with these Regulations.

87.6 Where a Promoted Championship Club, at the point at which it becomes a member of the Premier League pursuant to Premier League Rule B.4, is engaged in a dispute with The League in relation to any aspect the application of the relevant aligned Regulations by The League, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of The League may pass to the Premier League.

I’m sure the lawyers would argue we weren’t engaged in a dispute with the PL at the point we ceased to become a member club, as they hadn’t charged us with anything by then

Edited 6 September by Harboro

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

The EFL rules state this

 

 

87.4 Where a Promoted Championship Club, or any Official or Director of that Promoted Championship Club, at the point at which it becomes a member of the Premier League, is subject to an investigation by The League for alleged breaches of any aligned provisions within the Premier League Rules, the responsibility for that investigation will pass to the Premier League and the provisions of that Premier League Rule will apply.

Disputes – Promoted and Relegated Clubs

87.5 Where a Relegated PL Club, at the point it ceases to be member of the Premier League and becomes a member of The League in accordance with Regulation 10.1, is engaged in a dispute with the Premier League in relation to any aspect of the application of Premier League Rules E.45 to E.64, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of the Premier League may pass to The League, to be resolved in accordance with these Regulations.

87.6 Where a Promoted Championship Club, at the point at which it becomes a member of the Premier League pursuant to Premier League Rule B.4, is engaged in a dispute with The League in relation to any aspect the application of the relevant aligned Regulations by The League, where The League and the Premier League agree, conduct of that dispute on behalf of The League may pass to the Premier League.

The important thing here is, the rules aren't aligned.

[jayfox26]

1 hour ago, Harboro said:

I’m sure the lawyers would argue we weren’t engaged in a dispute with the PL at the point we ceased to become a member club, as they hadn’t charged us with anything by then

Hi Nick 👋 

[jayfox26]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The important thing here is, the rules aren't aligned.

Agreed, as much as the PL/EFL will absolutely want to shaft us, their poorly written rules means Nick De Marco would shaft them every way possible, until they close the loopholes and hire someone to write their rules correctly. Alternatively, they could just scrap the psr bull shit and allow a level playing field but that would upset the cartel, and the PL wouldn't dare upset them! 

[Bilo]

5 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

They can give punishments whilst we're in the PL, yes. But they can only apply once we're back in the EFL. 

How long does that hold for? What if we're back in the PL as long as we were last time round, only to encounter a points deduction in 2033?

[fox_favourite]

Chelsea can sell hotels to itself to avoid psr, which is cleared by the premier League, but is a loophole in the rules and not allowed by UEFA or EFL but the prem it's fine. Yet we get made the villain when we have also found a loophole in the rules?!

 

One rule for one and all that. 

[PhillippaT]

17 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Chelsea can sell hotels to itself to avoid psr, which is cleared by the premier League, but is a loophole in the rules and not allowed by UEFA or EFL but the prem it's fine. Yet we get made the villain when we have also found a loophole in the rules?!

 

One rule for one and all that. 

Well, DUH   

[Clever Fox]

One of the big problems for thePremier league and EFl in all of this is they are both different legal entities.

 

I'm not sure how easily they can bridge that anomaly  unless they both addopt the same rules there's always going to be problems.

 

The FA could possibly introduce such rules but the Premier league burnt their bridges with the FA years ago.

 

 

[Legend_in_blue]

 

 

[don_danbury]

44 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

 

guy on the right looks like a right miserable bastard

[sylofox]

On 06/09/2024 at 09:17, Ric Flair said:

Leicester don't breach 

 

 

And we've made up our mind, we're gonna keep Jon Rudkin

 

That actually sounds like a Whitesnake track.

 

But I'm not clever enough to put it on here

[Bourbon Fox]

On 06/09/2024 at 20:06, Bilo said:

How long does that hold for? What if we're back in the PL as long as we were last time round, only to encounter a points deduction in 2033?

Three points now will only be half a point then, because of inflation

[Chrysalis]

Dont think we will get a 2nd breach, our finances have already been analysed, considered ok and Whelan has said she thinks we will be ok.  There is even the possibility we get the full 105m loss allowance as well.  Due to the T, T-1 and T-2 rules.

[ClaphamFox]

4 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Dont think we will get a 2nd breach, our finances have already been analysed, considered ok and Whelan has said she thinks we will be ok.  There is even the possibility we get the full 105m loss allowance as well.  Due to the T, T-1 and T-2 rules.

Where has Whelan said that? I know the club has been telling journalists off-the-record that they’re confident we won’t breach, but has Whelan gone on-the-record with it?