Premier League cannot take action against the club for exceeding the relevant PSR threshold

[Clever Fox]

Just now, Les-TA-Jon said:

But that's not the case. 

 

The rules were found to not be enforceable, in the specific instance of a club being relegated whilst also breaching the allowable losses. That situation only applies to LCFC. 

 

The new ruling yesterday doesn't open anything up for other clubs. 

We'll have to wait and see if the 2 clubs decide to take matters further. The rules cant just apply to one Club in law. They have to be the same for everbody.

You can argue we got away with it on a technicality, but in law they have to be seen to work and it this case the rules were found wanting. 

Therefore not fit for the purpose intended.

The other problem they have now is they cannot enforce rules over another leagal entity, namely the EPL.

[Lineker's Lugs]

4 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

No, the appeal found that based on our accounting period and our relegation, the Premier League had no jurisdiction to enforce the rules.

 

Everton were a Premier League club throughout the process, we weren’t.

And Forest were a PL club at the end of the 3 year period they were charged for, so they were also covered by the rules. 

[Livid]

Meanwhile over in Nottingham they are continuing not to care about us one little bit…..

[foxinsox]

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Look, we all know we spent more than was allowed if you just take the financial side of it. Yes, it's their fault the rules weren't in sync with the EPL or didn't work as they intended. But I don't think it's wise really to pretend like we didn't get away with one here. 

The key lesson to take away is to not get in the same financial mess again. We won't get away with it again.

 

I have never liked points deduction as a penalty for financial and legal issues. Far better is a transfer ban or wage capping for offending clubs etc. It levels the field the correct way.

 

I am optimistic that we can stay up now. We have shown a bit of bite and fight, albeit without much in the way of points so far. I like Cooper-ball more than Enzo-ball as a fan, maybe less technical and sophisticated, but far more entertaining.

 

 

[orangecity23]

If Everton and Forest have a problem, then it should be with the PL, not with us. Their punishment was a points deduction, and it occurred in a season we weren't even in the Prem. They weren't relegated, so the impact of the points deduction was they finished a few places lower in the Prem than they would have otherwise? At best, you could argue their damages is a few million in prize money and not a lot else. The last time we were in the Prem they both finished above us anyway.

[RoboFox]

Jimmies rustled all across the midlands.

 

[filbertway]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

On the one hand, squeezing the club through the tightest of legal loopholes and out into safety shows a certain...moral flexibility on those involved within the club.

 

On the other, the faux outrage from fans of other clubs who, to a man, would have no issue with their club doing exactly the same is absolutely hilarious entertainment. Spare us the spitting feathers, guys - it's both hypocritical and indicative that you take a game over which you have no control way too seriously, and perhaps you should get outside and touch grass a little more for the sake of your mental health.

I'm surprised how many people are positive about this. Not in the sense of the club have been given a chance which on it's own is great news. But to be openly smug about us getting away with being awful due to a lawyer spotting a technicality, where's your morals people?

 

I agree with the general principle of PSR in that clubs should be protected from mad owners putting liability onto clubs. However, I don't think clubs should be limited by their turnover. I think that the owner should be allowed to act as a "guarantor" and legally liable for any contracts/transfers that are signed off under their stewardship. Unless of course they sell the club and transfer that liability to another owner. It'd be a little more nuanced than that, but I think the club should only be liable for upto 95% of their turnover and then the rest has to be made up by the owner.

 

Ideally wages and transfer fees would just drop to sensible levels, but that feels like it's miles away from happening.

[Clever Fox]

6 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

No, the appeal found that based on our accounting period and our relegation, the Premier League had no jurisdiction to enforce the rules.

 

Everton were a Premier League club throughout the process, we weren’t.

Yes correct, They completely failed to legislate for Clubs being relegated firstly, and Secondly they have no jurisdiction over another legal entity. The EPL.

You cannot pick and choose pieces of the rules as they are written for enforcement. They have failed the legal challenge which means they all have to be rewritten.

Now that may well mean you use a lot of the current rules with new further additions, but that becomes a completly new set of rules and the old one extinct.

[Pliskin]

6 minutes ago, Livid said:

Meanwhile over in Nottingham they are continuing not to care about us one little bit…..

The ‘technicality’ being the premier leagues rules appear to have been written by a child. Not our problem, it’s theirs. We didn’t cheat, we’ve clearly acted within the remits of the premier leagues own rules. 

[jammie82uk]

It’s funny seeing people who was saying Declan Rice had to be sent off at the weekend because of how the rules are written who also object to us getting away with this 

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Clubs will always take advantage of the loopholes they find - the Big 6 certainly do! But the drop was horrible in many ways. For goodness sake, we had been fairly regular in Europe for a few years, and won three trophies in under a decade! Yet the PSR rules were suffocating us (as they were meant to) yet clubs that won less than us (<< cough, cough>> **Spurs**) get away with murder.

To be fair, spurs generate a lot of income and spend it.  not sure why you think they’ve got away with murder ?   The only members of the rich six who seem to have got away with stuff is Chelsea and Man City.  the rest are working within the rules (don’t know enough about yanited’s Covid payment to comment).  It’s the rules which are skewed 

[VLC86]

2 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Yes correct, They completely failed to legislate for Clubs being relegated firstly, and Secondly they have no jurisdiction over another legal entity. The EPL.

You cannot pick and choose pieces of the rules as they are written for enforcement. They have failed the legal challenge which means they all have to be rewritten.

Now that may well mean you use a lot of the current rules with new further additions, but that becomes a completly new set of rules and the old one extinct.

So back to my question, on what basis do you think Forest or Everton have to take any of us to court?

[FosseSpark]

So, we were taking legal advice during the relegation season, because we actively chose to start not extending contracts and losing players on big wages like Schmeichel. Is there any way that we got relegated on purpose as it was the lawyers best advice on how we avoid the shoddily written rules and bounce back with no penalties? It sounds like a Harvey Specter from Suits kind of play, but would explain A LOT about our extremely weird actions as a club during that period in keeping on a clearly cooked manager for the year, not playing clearly superior players and some of the bizarre behaviour / silence of previously extremely vocal and communicative execs....

Edited 4 September by FosseSpark

[martyn]

11 minutes ago, Livid said:

Meanwhile over in Nottingham they are continuing not to care about us one little bit…..

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Whether they do in fact care, or not, about Leicester, Nottingham Forest fans' obsession over telling anyone who listens that they don't care is incredibly strange.

Edited 4 September by martyn

[Les-TA-Jon]

11 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

We'll have to wait and see if the 2 clubs decide to take matters further. The rules cant just apply to one Club in law. They have to be the same for everbody.

You can argue we got away with it on a technicality, but in law they have to be seen to work and it this case the rules were found wanting. 

Therefore not fit for the purpose intended.

The other problem they have now is they cannot enforce rules over another leagal entity, namely the EPL.

They do though. Had Everton / Forest been relegated instead of us, they could have made the same (successful) case for appeal.

 

 

[les-tah]

So to close this loop hole does all 20 teams need to vote for it? Because i am sure everton and forest and anyone else who could be relegated isnt stupid enough to close a loop hole 

[jammie82uk]

17 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Clubs will always take advantage of the loopholes they find - the Big 6 certainly do!

Man united allegedly did last month 

 

Stefan Borson, a regular football finance contributor on radio station talkSPORT, appeared on Jim White’s show on Tuesday and said United accounted for a £40million loss as being due to Covid in the 2021-22 season.

“United would have failed PSR for the season just gone, save for two things,” Borson said. “One, they were given, it appears, an exceptional allowance of £40m for Covid in 2022, which no other club had.

“On top of that, it seems they have been given an allowance for around £35m of exceptional costs relating to the share sale to (Sir Jim) Ratcliffe.

“The only way in which they can make the 2023-24 PSR number, and this is not just my view based on publicly available information in the U.S., was by having these allowances.”

[KFS]

15 minutes ago, Livid said:

Meanwhile over in Nottingham they are continuing not to care about us one little bit…..

Nottingham Forest fans and kids in glass houses.

 

How about the backhand deals this summer involving quite obvious attempts at money laundering through football?

 

How about bringing in 30+ players and factually breaking the rules the year we went down?

 

How about this ridiculous attempt at influencing referees with Clattenburg?

 

Abhorrent football club complaining about others is genuinely astounding 

[Flappit]

5 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

They do though. Had Everton / Forest been relegated instead of us, they could have made the same (successful) case for appeal.

 

 

Only if they'd moved their accounting period as well and ensured they transferred their share to a promoted club before the accounting period ended. It's a *really* specific edge case scenario, which many on this thread are failing to grasp with comments like "this makes the whole set of rules unenforceable" which is utter balls 

[bmt]

19 minutes ago, Livid said:

Meanwhile over in Nottingham they are continuing not to care about us one little bit…..

Cry some more

[Clever Fox]

10 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

So back to my question, on what basis do you think Forest or Everton have to take any of us to court?

They can't take us to Court, We haven't done anything wrong so they've no case against us. T

 

hey do have a case in my opinion against the league for enforcing rules that wern't fit for purpose.

[Flappit]

2 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

They can't take us to Court, We haven't done anything wrong so they've no case against us. T

 

hey do have a case in my opinion against the league for enforcing rules that wern't fit for purpose.

You're not a very clever fox then... the specific loophole here doesn't apply to Everton or Forest's situation, as they remained premier league clubs. One clause being unenforceable doesn't render the entire ruleset to be the same.

[VLC86]

3 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

They can't take us to Court, We haven't done anything wrong so they've no case against us. T

 

hey do have a case in my opinion against the league for enforcing rules that wern't fit for purpose.

Then every team has the same right, but I’m not sure that can happen.

 

You can’t legally challenge something just because it’s not right, you would have to find the loop holes which apply to them and challenge them. Which is what we did and Forest/Everton were not able to do hence their deductions stuck.

[ClaphamFox]

Borson on TalkSport just now claimed we would have ended up with 3-4 point deduction had this appeal failed.

[FoxinNotts]

Forest, Everton and ourselves cheated.

 

We got relegated. Forest and Everton got points deductions (but survived)

 

Drama. Move on. PSR rules will have to change, due to our good work.