Ricardo mystery

[TaggertvsWise]

On 17/09/2024 at 18:05, jerry said:

Voice of reason sadly lacking on this Forum 🤔

Sadly the negativity on here has made it impossible to enjoy it.  It used to be a lot of fun and reasonable conjecture, now it’s gone down the binary social media route I’m not sure it’s a ‘forum’ anymore. I’ll watch from afar but think I’m too old to really enjoy this space anymore.

[ronnup]

4 minutes ago, TaggertvsWise said:

Sadly the negativity on here has made it impossible to enjoy it.  It used to be a lot of fun and reasonable conjecture, now it’s gone down the binary social media route I’m not sure it’s a ‘forum’ anymore. I’ll watch from afar but think I’m too old to really enjoy this space anymore.

🤣

 

It's always been the same...

[The whole world smiles]

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

[trabuch]

2 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

That has thoroughly depressed me. Much like Cooper.

[Uncle Monty]

4 hours ago, ronnup said:

🤣

 

It's always been the same...

It hasn't.

Edited 19 hours ago by Uncle Monty

[Dahnsouff]

8 hours ago, ronnup said:

🤣

 

It's always been the same...

Not true, it now seems almost fashionable to slate everything and wear your disdain like a badge of pride.

[dr.o.ball]

9 hours ago, TaggertvsWise said:

Sadly the negativity on here has made it impossible to enjoy it.  It used to be a lot of fun and reasonable conjecture, now it’s gone down the binary social media route I’m not sure it’s a ‘forum’ anymore. I’ll watch from afar but think I’m too old to really enjoy this space anymore.

Take it with a pinch of salt my friend...Us old boys don't get so excited/blinkered. 

[Dr The Singh]

His career, while Coops is in charge is over.  At 31, prime, creative, multi faceted player cannot be sitting on the bench at a relegation stricken side.

 

Its collateral damage, im afraid.

[Chelmofox]

9 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

His career, while Coops is in charge is over.  At 31, prime, creative, multi faceted player cannot be sitting on the bench at a relegation stricken side.

 

Its collateral damage, im afraid.

Coops will have to play him at some point. JJ can’t play every game and is probably only a few games away from a 3 month layoff. His hand will be forced soon. 

[Mr.Bingles]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not true, it now seems almost fashionable to slate everything and wear your disdain like a badge of pride.

It's the "I TOLD YOU SO"  crowd. They like being able to moan like buggery then be able to turn around and say....." I called it months ago" 
 

Personally given the circumstances, Ricardo or no Ricardo, we're holding our own against the established Premier teams. I could be wrong but I think we'll survive by the skin of our teeth and Cooper will have done his job. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

9 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

I'd play both of them - they'd be absolute mustard down that right side together rather than the weakness it has been in the first few games

[SafewayFox]

On 17/09/2024 at 17:19, jerry said:

Agenda against Cooper due to his Forest link ? Only a brain fart from Coady cost is a win on Saturday, would the venom still be the  same we won ? Any one on this Forum expecting anything other than a relegation scrap are sadly deluded.

I seriously HATE this rhetoric.

 

Nothing to do with his dreadful PL win ratio as a manager?

 

Or with his apparent obsession with “PL experience” which has seen 2 of our attacking options come in at the twilight of their distinctly average careers most likely on a big wedge.

 

How about his lack of game management from his time here or the comments from Forest fans “did he throw on another CB to defend a lead”.

 

The list goes on, I didn’t want Cooper and he has done nothing to make me think I was wrong to begin with.

 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by SafewayFox

[Babylon]

On 17/09/2024 at 15:09, Kierzz said:

Last time Ricardo played as a proper full back / wing back for us (not inverted) his defensive work was very underrated. I think he was better defensively than Justin, plus you have the huge advantage of how good he is technically on the ball and at attacking.

 

I still think it's madness not to be playing Ricardo who has been our best player for the last 5 seasons.

In his previous three premier league seasons, he managed to start what I think was a grand total of 17 games (or around that). 

 

22/23: 453 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 23rd

21/22: 994 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 5th

20/21: 959 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 15th (Justin was 4th)

 

Ricardo hasn't been the same player since 19/20, he was one of the best players in the league then. Sensational. I'm more than happy for people to want to see him play, but building him up like he's been anything close to the player pre injury is frankly just ignoring what's been in front of us. And I fail to see have someone making 5 starts a season on average could even come into the conversation about being our best player. 

 

*I don't rate who scored, but in the absence of any want or time to search out a million metrics, I've just used it here as an example. 

 

[RumbleFox]

10 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

Honestly, the last thing I want to do is “beat the manager” and I’d like to think I’m not dense (though thanks for the blanket insult of half the forum, always helps persuade people to your point of view) but the Ricardo thing is perplexing. Yes maybe “mystery” was the wrong word but I don’t want to get bogged down in semantics. For Ricardo not to even get any minutes when he was arguably our best player last season and, in my opinion, the most gifted footballer at the club is insane and I don’t blame people at all for questioning it. It’s a travesty. 

Edited 13 hours ago by RumbleFox

[Babylon]

7 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I seriously HATE this rhetoric.

 

1) Nothing to do with his dreadful PL win ratio as a manager?

 

2) Or with his apparent obsession with “PL experience” which has seen 2 of our attacking options come in at the twilight of their distinctly average careers most likely on a big wedge.

 

3) How about his lack of game management from his time here or the comments from Forest fans “did he throw on another CB to defend a lead”.

 

The list goes on, I didn’t want Cooper and he has done nothing to make me think I was wrong to begin with.

 

1) He was a newly promoted manager, very few have a good premier league win ratio at the start of their time. Did he keep them up, yes. So his win ratio was enough. And he should be judged on what he does here, not dragging in other results from elsewhere. Going on about win ratios is a total red herring. It was a little different to Potter in his first season in the premier league from memory, and also completely ignores draws, which also get points. (1 win, 4 draws and 1 loss get more points than 2 wins and 4 losses.... but the latter has the better win ratio)

 

2) Wish people would make their minds up here. One minute he's bought a load of old duffers (we got two in, whilst battling PSR issues), the next minute he's got a "decent experienced team" he's not getting the best of. 

 

3) I've not liked everything hes' done, I've made it clear what I don't like. But few managers don't try and hold on to leads, as I've said a few times Maresca did it, Pearson did it, Ranieri did it, Puel did it, Rodgers did it. I don't really like it, but to make out he's somewhat of a lone wolf in terms of wanting to hold onto leads is just way off the mark. 

[SafewayFox]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

In his previous three premier league seasons, he managed to start what I think was a grand total of 17 games (or around that). 

 

22/23: 453 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 23rd

21/22: 994 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 5th

20/21: 959 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 15th (Justin was 4th)

 

Ricardo hasn't been the same player since 19/20, he was one of the best players in the league then. Sensational. I'm more than happy for people to want to see him play, but building him up like he's been anything close to the player pre injury is frankly just ignoring what's been in front of us. And I fail to see have someone making 5 starts a season on average could even come into the conversation about being our best player. 

 

*I don't rate who scored, but in the absence of any want or time to search out a million metrics, I've just used it here as an example. 

 

A great post to be fair mate.

 

I think the recent bias of how well Ricky played last season in the Championship though is still fresh on a lot of our minds.

 

JJ hasn’t had the best start so seeing Ricky come in is a good option to have. 

[Babylon]

17 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

A great post to be fair mate.

 

I think the recent bias of how well Ricky played last season in the Championship though is still fresh on a lot of our minds.

 

JJ hasn’t had the best start so seeing Ricky come in is a good option to have. 

I love Riccy, and he deserves some minutes. He'll get them as well, once he come in he just has to make himself undroppable. 

 

All managers have blind spots, blimey look at Pearson first season up and how he used Mahrez and more so Albrighton (I'm not saying it even is a blind spot, but it could be). Cooper like Pearson is one of them who wants players to go the extra mile for him, it really could be as simple as Justin showing utter dedication pre season and in training and going above and beyond. It could be nothing that Riccy has done.

Edited 13 hours ago by Babylon

[RumbleFox]

38 minutes ago, Babylon said:

In his previous three premier league seasons, he managed to start what I think was a grand total of 17 games (or around that). 

 

22/23: 453 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 23rd

21/22: 994 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 5th

20/21: 959 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 15th (Justin was 4th)

 

Ricardo hasn't been the same player since 19/20, he was one of the best players in the league then. Sensational. I'm more than happy for people to want to see him play, but building him up like he's been anything close to the player pre injury is frankly just ignoring what's been in front of us. And I fail to see have someone making 5 starts a season on average could even come into the conversation about being our best player. 

 

*I don't rate who scored, but in the absence of any want or time to search out a million metrics, I've just used it here as an example. 

 

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said really but last season he was our best player. Granted he was not playing traditional “fullback” but to go from best player to no minutes at all is baffling. 

[Babylon]

Just now, RumbleFox said:

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said really but last season he was our best player. Granted he was not playing traditional “fullback” but to go from best player to no minutes at all is baffling. 

Different manager, different roles. Not that baffling personally as managers want different things. It's on him to prove himself to his new manager and make himself undroppable when he gets the minutes inevitably. 

[shen]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Different manager, different roles. Not that baffling personally as managers want different things. It's on him to prove himself to his new manager and make himself undroppable when he gets the minutes inevitably. 

If you cannot use Ricardo in any position, then you're not a very good manager honestly. He's such a classy and clever player, especially off the ball, that he has to be able to get a spot in this team. 

He excelled in that fluid role last year and I wonder how on earth you don't build around that as a manager.

[RumbleFox]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Different manager, different roles. Not that baffling personally as managers want different things. It's on him to prove himself to his new manager and make himself undroppable when he gets the minutes inevitably. 

I don’t think baffling he’s not starting IF the manager wants a different system. But zero minutes is genuinely confusing. 

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, shen said:

If you cannot use Ricardo in any position, then you're not a very good manager honestly. He's such a classy and clever player, especially off the ball, that he has to be able to get a spot in this team. 

He excelled in that fluid role last year and I wonder how on earth you don't build around that as a manager.

Well, personally I'd rather not shoe horn full backs into midfield at this level. He plays at full back or wing back. 

 

[honeybradger]

11 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

James Justin was benched for large parts of last season and there were none of those threads. 

 

The Ricardo Pereira threads arent even necessarily related to James Justin's form, they started before we had even started playing. Most of our fans recognise that Ricardo is a special player, arguably our best. He's far better than Kristiansen and Justin at least, if we want to have the best chance to stay up he should not be on the bench. It's that simple.

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by honeybradger

[guest123]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

In his previous three premier league seasons, he managed to start what I think was a grand total of 17 games (or around that). 

 

22/23: 453 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 23rd

21/22: 994 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 5th

20/21: 959 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 15th (Justin was 4th)

 

Ricardo hasn't been the same player since 19/20, he was one of the best players in the league then. Sensational. I'm more than happy for people to want to see him play, but building him up like he's been anything close to the player pre injury is frankly just ignoring what's been in front of us. And I fail to see have someone making 5 starts a season on average could even come into the conversation about being our best player. 

 

*I don't rate who scored, but in the absence of any want or time to search out a million metrics, I've just used it here as an example. 

 

Ok, as you’re so determined to take rudkin’s and cooper’s Bobby munk, ricardo’s shit and best ever decision to not play him because of an injury 3 years back. Bravo cuck 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Mr.Bingles said:

It's the "I TOLD YOU SO"  crowd. They like being able to moan like buggery then be able to turn around and say....." I called it months ago" 
 

Personally given the circumstances, Ricardo or no Ricardo, we're holding our own against the established Premier teams. I could be wrong but I think we'll survive by the skin of our teeth and Cooper will have done his job.