General News

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Wouldn't it be great if when we leave this mortal coil we can look down on all the insanity, breakdown, horror and craziness that is world will experience in the future and then we can say "we told you so but you didn't listen".

 

I'm reminded of Billy Joel's "We didn't Start The Fire". But actually we did.

 

More fool us, right now.

Not only that, but also make sure those responsible are recorded, for the sake of those future generations that are left to make sure they not only not repeat the errors, but also remember those names in the utmost infamy for eternity.

[Parafox]

8 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

May I suggest Done Too Soon by Neil Diamond. From 1970. Not a protest song but rather about life and death using the names of famous people from various backgrounds 

 

Just listened.   

 

There's a lot in those lyrics.

 

  

Edited Friday at 18:48 by Parafox

[Parafox]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

DJ Campbell's through, no he's not he's offside 

 

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Tune.

 

Link? Context? Please. I need to hear this.

[Parafox]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not only that, but also make sure those responsible are recorded, for the sake of those future generations that are left to make sure they not only not repeat the errors, but also remember those names in the utmost infamy for eternity.

 

My fear around this is that as in the 1984 novel, history will be rewritten. 

 

The advances in tech, AI, and whatever comes next could really skew our knowledge if those like Musk really get their hands on it.

[The Doctor]

26 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

Absolute insanity.

 

A hard fought victory for women everywhere

 

Fvckn terfs

it's genuinely ridiculous, no woman is safer as a result of that verdict that she was at the start of the week, in fact a lot of women are far less safe than they were. As a verdict it's going to embolden more harassment of trans women, that should be bad enough for people to care but I know it's not for too many, so let's consider the impact on cis women.

 

We know full well that cis women get mistaken for trans women and harassed on that basis regularly, you can find a ton of news reports to that end, predominantly targeting butch lesbians, but let's suppose for a second that "we can always tell", so no trans woman passes, and let's assume a 1% false positive rate (identifying a cis woman as trans). Per the census we know there are 48,000 trans women in the UK, and 30.4m women in the UK. For fairness, let's deduct 48k from that number, assuming all trans women were registered as women in that. that leaves us with 30,352,000 cis women in the UK, with our 1% false positive rate, that's 303,520 cis women who'd be falsely considered to be a trans woman, or 6.3 cis women who'll face harassment as a result for every trans woman. Anti trans rhetoric endangers all women.

[Foxdiamond]

14 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Just listened.   

 

There's a lot in those lyrics.

 

  

Apparently he got the idea for the song during a particularly bumpy plane journey

[Sampson]

I feel like virtue signalling has been replaced by vice signaling where people try to outdo each other by being crueler and crueler to other human beings in order to show how bona fide they are.  

[Danizen]

49 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

 

Link? Context? Please. I need to hear this.

 

 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

I feel like virtue signalling has been replaced by vice signaling where people try to outdo each other by being crueler and crueler to other human beings in order to show how bona fide they are.  

And then they like to call it "just human nature".

 

As if such a thing is true, and if it is, as if it is in fact immutable or desirable for our species for it to be so.

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

If only it were that simple.

 

Inexorably tied militarily and economically, sadly.

The alternative, if the US heads further in its current trajectory is to become a vassal state.

[Sampson]

[Jon the Hat]

7 hours ago, The Doctor said:

ah yes, because complex scientific and sociological questions should be simplified for the benefit of a hack children's author who's now ~60% black mould by weight and a bunch of people really unhappy that science didn't stop at their primary school education.

Careful your bile filled hate is showing!

[Lionator]

11 hours ago, The Doctor said:

it's genuinely ridiculous, no woman is safer as a result of that verdict that she was at the start of the week, in fact a lot of women are far less safe than they were. As a verdict it's going to embolden more harassment of trans women, that should be bad enough for people to care but I know it's not for too many, so let's consider the impact on cis women.

 

We know full well that cis women get mistaken for trans women and harassed on that basis regularly, you can find a ton of news reports to that end, predominantly targeting butch lesbians, but let's suppose for a second that "we can always tell", so no trans woman passes, and let's assume a 1% false positive rate (identifying a cis woman as trans). Per the census we know there are 48,000 trans women in the UK, and 30.4m women in the UK. For fairness, let's deduct 48k from that number, assuming all trans women were registered as women in that. that leaves us with 30,352,000 cis women in the UK, with our 1% false positive rate, that's 303,520 cis women who'd be falsely considered to be a trans woman, or 6.3 cis women who'll face harassment as a result for every trans woman. Anti trans rhetoric endangers all women.

There’s adult arguments and debates around this topic (ie trans people competing in certain sports) but how anyone could argue that the likes of JK Rowling and Linehan aren’t absolutely cooked warped minds is beyond me. They’ll keep moving the goalposts until they have trans women in camps. 

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

There’s adult arguments and debates around this topic (ie trans people competing in certain sports) but how anyone could argue that the likes of JK Rowling and Linehan aren’t absolutely cooked warped minds is beyond me. They’ll keep moving the goalposts until they have trans women in camps. 

I stay out of this debate generally, but that's just ridiculous. 

[when_you're_smiling]

32 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

I stay out of this debate generally, but that's just ridiculous. 

I tend to stay out too as I have no idea why people get so worked up about it, but why is it ridiculous? History tells us pretty much every minority group that’s blamed for ills in society (Jews most famously, illegal immigrants etc) ends up concentrated in camps.

[Torquay Gunner]

14 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

I tend to stay out too as I have no idea why people get so worked up about it, but why is it ridiculous? History tells us pretty much every minority group that’s blamed for ills in society (Jews most famously, illegal immigrants etc) ends up concentrated in camps.

Trans women in concentration camps in the UK, was that the suggestion? That's pure melodrama right there and doesn't bring anything constructive to this debate. 

[Lionator]

11 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Trans women in concentration camps in the UK, was that the suggestion? That's pure melodrama right there and doesn't bring anything constructive to this debate. 

Nothing Rowling says is constructive and most is melodramatic and talks about trans women like they’re a horrific threat to all women, so that’s where we’re at. And I suspect those of us with trans relatives know the crap they have to put up with. 
 

But like others have said it’s probably a good idea not to go into it touch much on these pages as it’s toxic. 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

I stay out of this debate generally, but that's just ridiculous. 

it's really not though is it, this is how every genocide in history has started, through legislative bursts to make it harder and harder for the targeted minority group to exist in public. When that doesn't work, will they take the next step of straight up criminalising the minorities existence? Quite possibly. Let's look at the 10 stages of genocide:

 

Classification, Symbolisation, Discrimination, Dehumanisation, Organisation, Polarisation, Persecution, Extermination, Denial.

 

concentration camps come at step 8, persecution.

 

Now, it's not an inevitable straight line all the way through, for instance we've lingered on discrimination and dehumanisation for disabled people for decades without progressing to state sponsored eugenics, but the path is well marked, it's happened before and a blase wait and see attitude in the face of increasing discrimination and dehumanisation is not only foolish, it's down right dangerous. 

 

like, to be clear, I don't think that every single person who has campaigned against trans inclusion will want to end up there, but it's undeniable that there are a significant handful for who the goal is that trans people, particularly trans women, stop existing, and there's only one way you achieve that...

Edited Saturday at 09:33 by The Doctor

[Spudulike]

18 hours ago, The Doctor said:

This isn't making women "responsible for solving the problem of male violence", rather what you're doing is stating that you think there should be a sacrifical group of women to pacify men, and that's a dangerous road to go down, because when you start divvying up people who are and aren't acceptable targets for violence, you invariably create a slippery slope where more and more groups are designated acceptable targets.

 

There's no reliable evidence that trans women have male pattern criminality to start with, the common citation for this is Dhejne et al, and it's a gross misinterpretation of the research. The study doesn't look at conviction types, it's not a male or female pattern criminality (in terms of offences) study, it's a finding that a cohort of trans women between 1973 - 1988 has similar conviction rates to a cisgender male group, a pattern not observed in the 1989 to 2003 cohort. So, we then have to ask the simple question: why was this pattern seen in the older cohort but not the younger? could it have anything to do with the attitudes towards LGBT people as a whole in the 70s and 80s compared to the 90s?

 

So, I don't agree with the notion that there is significant masculinisation of the brain, because there's not solid evidence that significant differences between "male" and "female" brains exist, instead instead we can mostly discount it as an artefact of the average sizes of men and women, but let's suppose that 1% of difference is significant, well the research we've got suggests that the brains of trans women are significantly different from both cis men and cis women to start with, and that hormone therapy pushes the more neuroplastic regions towards that of acquired sex anyway. The notion of male and female brains is on shaky ground generally, and the idea that trans women have male brains (and trans men female brains) is even less founded.

 

As for the idea that post transition trans women behave like men, cite your evidence - and make sure it's actual evidence, not speculative crap from anti-trans campaign groups like Sex Matters who take half the available information to justify the conclusion they've already started at.

 

Are you really a Doctor? 

[st albans fox]

Should we debate why there is less furore about trans men? 
I can think of several starter points without too much effort. 

 

Back to trans women, (and trans men for that matter), re the routes as mentioned in recent posts - I simply don’t believe that there is a sufficient public interest in denying trans people their basic right of being allowed to live as they want to (as long as it doesn’t strongly impinge on the rights of others)

 

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Are you really a Doctor? 

I imagine him with a v long scarf ………..

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Are you really a Doctor? 

Given that PhD's (or MDs) tend to rely on scientific citations rather than soundbites and innuendo for their arguments and that is rather ably being demonstrated here, it looks that way.

Edited Saturday at 09:51 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Should we debate why there is less furore about trans men? 
I can think of several starter points without too much effort. 

 

Back to trans women, (and trans men for that matter), re the routes as mentioned in recent posts - I simply don’t believe that there is a sufficient public interest in denying trans people their basic right of being allowed to live as they want to (as long as it doesn’t strongly impinge on the rights of others)

 

I hope that you're right now, and more importantly that you're still right in, say, a decade.

[Spudulike]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Should we debate why there is less furore about trans men? 
I can think of several starter points without too much effort. 

 

Back to trans women, (and trans men for that matter), re the routes as mentioned in recent posts - I simply don’t believe that there is a sufficient public interest in denying trans people their basic right of being allowed to live as they want to (as long as it doesn’t strongly impinge on the rights of others)

 

In certain circumstances it's not possible for people to live their lives as the opposite sex as they want to. For example, a trans woman (ie a man) cannot legally enter women only spaces, if that's what they want to do.

[when_you're_smiling]

56 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Trans women in concentration camps in the UK, was that the suggestion? That's pure melodrama right there and doesn't bring anything constructive to this debate. 

I hope you’re right but the same could probably have been said in Germany in the 1930s and without delving into the whole history of transphobia/ homophobia, I’m sure many other times.

Edited Saturday at 10:04 by when_you're_smiling