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Daggers

Madeleine McCann

By Daggers, in General Chat

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Chandler

Chandler

Posted
Posted

OK folks are you with me so far? I'll quickly sumarise again KEY FACTS about the wider context surrounding the disappearance of Maddie McCann.

1) Maddie's disppearance bears an eerie similarity to that of Joana Cipriano which took place three years ago in that:

(a) Joana disappeared from a village only seven miles from Praia da Luz

(b) her mother, Leonor, was also charged with her killing

© both the motive for Joana's murder (discovery of incest with Leonor's brother) and the method of disposal of her body (feeding to pigs) were hypothetical and remain unproven

(d) Joana's body has never been found

(e) The head of the Cipriano investigation, Goncalo Amaral, is the joint chief investigating officer on the McCANN case.

It is further worth noting that Leonor's confession was beaten out of her and that Amaral is due to stand trial for his alleged role in that assault. Leonor is currently serving 16 years in jail (as is her brother) for the 'murder' of her daughter.

2) The Swiss based UN sponsored charity 'Innocence in Danger' was called in by the relatives of children who had disappeared recently in Portugal to investigate why little progress had been made into establishing what had happened to them. The charity's representatives were threatened and told to leave the country.

3) The Casa Pia orphanage scandal five years ago showed that Portugal had (and probably still has) a problem wih organised paedophile rings. The conduct of the police with regards to recent child abductions suggests that the abductors and their very high profile clients might enjoy CONDITIONAL immunity from prosecution.

There are echoes of the Marc Dutroux case in the Casa Pia scandal and the suibsequent child disappearances in Portugal. The investigation into the disappearance of the Belgian girls and the apprehension of Dutroux was handled by such mind boggling incompetence that 300,000 people turned out to protest against the Belgian police in Brussels in 1996.

Documentaries aired by both the BBC and ITV in the last five years showed that Dutroux also procured children for high profile clients and that for a long term he too enjoyed the protection of the police. When, eventually he was arrested and then re arrested (scarcily credible that he escaped from police custody) it took seven and a half years before his case finally came to court. Seven and a half years...

Enough time, according to ITV, for over 30 (inconvenient?) witnesses to die in a series of bizarre accidents and unusual circumstances.

More soon...

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Chandler

Chandler

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK folks, here are some more FACTS about Maddie McCanns disappearance. As early as the 5th May (less than 48 hours after Maddie's went missing) Philomena McCann (sister of Gerry) was on record as saying that the local police appeared to be disinterested in the case.

In the first few days of the investigation it was noted that:

1) The crime scene was not sealed and no attempt was made to recover DNA

2) Road blocks were not put up and the border remained open

3) Searches were conducted in the main by British expats

4) Portuguese police did not use sniffer or cadavar dogs

5) The Portuguese police did not issue appeals for witnesses to come forward

6) Few police officers from surrounding regional forces were seconded to the enquiry.

This behaviour is quite odd when you consider that the McCann family are British tourists in a country where tourism makes up a higher % of GDP than any other EU country (6%) and where Brits are the most populous visitors - nice, high spending, middle class tourists who love the country so much they buy more of its real estate than any other nationality.

You'd think there was a lot to lose by mishandling a case like this.

More soon...

Edited by Chandler
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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
OK folks, here are some more FACTS about Maddie McCanns disappearance. As early as the 5th May (less than 48 hours after Maddie's went missing) Philomena McCann (sister of Gerry) was on record as saying that the local police appeared to be disinterested in the case.

In the first few days of the investigation it was noted that:

1) The crime scene was not sealed and no attempt was made to recover DNA

2) Road blocks were not put up and the border remained open

3) Searches were conducted in the main by British expats

4) Portuguese police did not use sniffer or cadavar dogs

5) The Portuguese police did not issue appeals for witnesses to come forward

6) Few police officers from surrounding regional forces were seconded to the enquiry.

This behaviour is quite odd when you consider that the McCann family are British tourists in a country where tourism makes up a higher % of GDP than any other EU country (6%) and where Brits are the most populous visitors - nice, high spending, middle class tourists who love the country so much they buy more of its real estate than any other nationality.

You'd think there was a lot to lose by mishandling a case like this.

More soon...

You've posted this already.

I can't help noticing a lot of the inconsistencies, discrepancies and omissions in the reporting of the disappearance of Maddie McCann. I invite others to add to my own little rap sheet here.

1) More than one person witnessed a male hanging around the appartments at the Warner Resort (who fled when challenged). This incident was reported to Warner staff who took no action at all. Yet it was the McCanns and not the resort who took the flak (for leaving Maddie unattended).

2) Much was made of the fact early on that an intruder entered the McCanns appartment. But a scent picked up by sniffer dogs indicated that Maddie left the flat by herself and that she had wandered down to a local supermarket (suggesting the abductor was a local opportunist). So why:

a) was it not mentioned that the sniffer dogs belonged to a British ex pat and were only brought in nearly a week after Maddie's disppearance?

b) were only 500 appartments searched in the first 7 days (four officers working in pairs could easily do that)?

c) was the local search reported as being wound down as early as Saturday 12th May - little more than a week after Maddie's abduction?

3) Why did the Portuguese police violate their own law of judicial secrecy by feeding information to the press about Murat and others by:

a) stating he was already under investigation when suspicions about him were voiced by a Daily Mirror hack?

b) tipping off the Portuguese media that he had been released from questioning?

c) informing the press that he had asked friends to provide an alibi?

d) informing the press that he had acted suspiciously when hiring a car?

4) What has happened to that much publicised lead of a man in the company of another male and a female photographing Maddie on the beach (a similar male was reported photographing another girl less than 20 miles away on the same day) and a party fitting this description seen at a filling station in the region with a child fitting Maddie McCann's description? Is this what the Murat fit-up was all about? Or is there something else going on here?

A man publicly photographing children and a woman possibly being in an abduction party suggest something altogether more sinister than an opportunitst crime. It could be that Maddie was stolen to order and that the kidnapping was officially sanctioned.

5) Considering how big a crisis it was when it broke five years ago the Casa Pia orphanage scandal has rarely been mentioned in the British media recently. Yet it is extremely relevant to the Maddie McCann case: children (mainly boys) kidnapped to serve a paedophile ring based in Lisbon that included government ministers. Many of the children kidnapped for this ring are still missing and representatives of the Swiss based group 'Innocence In Danger' that campaign for them have been threatened when visiting Portugal.

6) The MO of the possible suspects in the McCann case are eerily reminiscent of Marc Dutroux (his wife and a male friend helped him abduct young girls). It is generally accepted that he procured for a Belgian state sponsored ring. In the lead up to his eventual prosecution two years ago 30 witnesses (yes that's THIRTY) reportedly died - the vast majority in suspicious circumstances.

7) Conspiracy of Silence, a documentary listed for viewing in TV Guide Magazine was to be aired on the Discovery Channel, on May 3 1994. This documentary exposed a network of religious leaders and Washington politicians who flew children to Washington D.C. for sex orgies. Many children suffered the indignity of wearing nothing but their underwear and a number displayed on a piece of cardboard hanging from their necks when being auctioned off to foreigners in Las Vegas, Nevada, and Toronto, Canada.

At the last minute before airing, unknown congressmen threatened the TV Cable industry with restrictive legislation if this documentary was aired. Almost immediately, the rights to the documentary were purchased by unknown persons who ordered all copies destroyed. It is believed now that the ring was set up by the CIA to blackmail politicians and public figures and was known as 'Operation Monarch' (and the victims became known as the 'Monarch Butterflies').

Last year's Congressional Page scandal is possible evidence that this programme still exists.

8) There is much evidence that such rings have existed in the UK the most notorious being the Kincora Boys Home scandal in Belfast in the '70's and another organised by Thomas Hamilton the Dunblane spree killer (although abductions are not alleged to have taken place in either case).

I believe there is more to the Maddie McCann case than we are being told. If, unfortunately my suspicions are right then all the pledges and the 24/7 rolling news coverage of her abduction will make it less likely that she will ever be found alive (when pressured in this way the state will generally behave with extreme ruthlessness).

It's looking like the only solution is intense behind the scenes diplomacy and putting it very diplomatically I'd say there was less than a 50% chance that this is going on as we speak.

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Chandler

Chandler

Posted
Posted

Oh yes folks even more FACTS about Maddie (I don't deal in innuendo).

Not content with merely failing to enforce the law Portugal's finest set out to break their very own 'special' law (can't remember the very relevant Mr Mourinho joining in the celebrity appeals or is that just my Alzheimers playing up again?) very grandly called 'judicial secrecy.'

It was a REMARKABLE coincidence that so much of the police case against the McCanns seemed to have been flagged up by the Portuguese media. The 'accidental death through sedation theory' was first aired on May 12th - more than three months before the PJ formally put the allegation to Kate McCann.

Interesting also that the McCanns innermost thoughts (which they couldn't possibly share even with their advisors and campaign team) found their way into the tabloids. No surprise then that when the story broke that the McCanns thought that Maddie was probably already dead that Kate and Gerry suspected that they were being bugged (this conclusion appears a little too obvious to the knob who posted sagely on here that the resources required to mount such an eavesdropping operation would beyond the scope of an enquiry such as this - get a life cabbage patch kid!).

The police and media made hay all along at the McCanns expense safe in the knowledge that their targets could not retaliate (unlike corrupt Portuguese officialdom they would have been arrested for any violation of the judicial secrecy law whose main puprose seems to be the silencing of victims of crime). Contrary to what our own media tell us the McCanns' required reticence did not start with their promotion to arguido's (though they have started to fight back through their associates since returning to ol' Blighty).

Now having given you all these facts I am next going to tell you what makes the McCann case DIFFERENT to what I've outlined previously. In my opinion it's the differences that tell us what this very nasty business is probably all about...

More later...

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted

OK folks, here are some more FACTS about Maddie McCanns disappearance. As early as the 5th May (less than 48 hours after Maddie's went missing) Philomena McCann (sister of Gerry) was on record as saying that the local police appeared to be disinterested in the case.

In the first few days of the investigation it was noted that:

1) The crime scene was not sealed and no attempt was made to recover DNA

Not being a policeman I can not be sure of this, but I would suggest if you you reported say a burglary, it is highly doubtful that the area would be secured with police tape and the scene made sterile. And since the McCann's claimed the child had been abducted, it is equally unlikely that the scene would be treated as if it were a murder. It should be remembered that the Britsh Ambassador, John Buck, is alleged to have contacted the head of the investigative police to insist that the case should be treated as an abduction.

It is a debateable point as to whether the police should have treated the McCann's as suspects from the start, (meaning that the crime scene should have been secured) given that in most cases of this nature it turns out that the parents have in fact harmed their own children. But I suspect that the shrill cries of protest from Team McCann would have been all the louder had this happened at the time.

Besides, it seems that as many as 20 of the McCann's holiday partners trampled over the "crime scene" very shortly after the "kidnapping".

2) Road blocks were not put up and the border remained open

Why do you think they would they shut down their borders over a missing person?. It isn't the Queen or PM who has gone missing you know. If they every country shut down the borders over every person who went missing people would never manage to leave or enter!.

3) Searches were conducted in the main by British expats

Don't know where you get your info, Chandler but a lot of locals, not just expats, took time off work to search for Madeleine. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6628891.stm

4) Portuguese police did not use sniffer or cadavar dogs

http://www.24dash.com/communities/20225.htm

5) The Portuguese police did not issue appeals for witnesses to come forward

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6694275.stm

6) Few police officers from surrounding regional forces were seconded to the enquiry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/6626251.stm

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Yaxx

Yaxx

Posted
Posted (edited)
Oh yes folks even more FACTS about Maddie (I don't deal in innuendo)

Interesting also that the McCanns innermost thoughts (which they couldn't possibly share even with their advisors and campaign team) found their way into the tabloids. No surprise then that when the story broke that the McCanns thought that Maddie was probably already dead that Kate and Gerry suspected that they were being bugged (this conclusion appears a little too obvious to the knob who posted sagely on here that the resources required to mount such an eavesdropping operation would beyond the scope of an enquiry such as this - get a life cabbage patch kid!).

The police and media made hay all along at the McCanns expense safe in the knowledge that their targets could not retaliate (unlike corrupt Portuguese officialdom they would have been arrested for any violation of the judicial secrecy law whose main puprose seems to be the silencing of victims of crime). Contrary to what our own media tell us the McCanns' required reticence did not start with their promotion to arguido's (though they have started to fight back through their associates since returning to ol' Blighty).

More later...

Oh really? Perhaps these conclusions were a little too obvious too - seeing as I'm such a knob:

Given the events of the last few days, it is likely the McCanns will be charged with murder. Any trial will undoubtedly be a fiasco. The McCanns have enormous resources at their disposal and any police failures or fuzzy forensics will be harshly exposed. Rightly or wrongly they will probably be aquitted. And the world will be none the wiser as to what really did happen.
Which brings me onto my last point. Any forensic findings in this case are going to be fatally flawed, primarily because of lax procedures and non-existent crime scene preservation. Evidentially they are all but worthless. If they do ever find themselves in court, you can rest assured that the McCanns will have plenty of 'top' forensic experts lined up in their defence, and rightly so.
Perhaps I know rather more about this case than you think!
Ah you jest, but I can assure you that there's a lot more going on behind the scenes than you realise.
As Thracian said, 'I imagine lots of people on this forum have "inside knowledge" of particular fields, whether it be police work, Leicester City, medical matters, whatever.' Exactly right. So why rubbish somebody when they come forward and openly say so? I'm not seeking kudos or brownie points, nor do I have an ego problem. But yes I do have a thorough and comprehensive working knowledge of police and evidential procedures; yes I do have a professional interest in this case; and yes I am privvy to certain information that isn't public knowledge. Is that so hard to comprehend? Does it make you feel sadly inadequate in some way?

I don't profess to have a particular opinion on the McCanns' innocence or guilt. But put yourself in their position for a moment. If you felt that the police investigation into the possible abduction of your daughter was being badly mishandled, and that in fact you were now being (in your view) wrongly accused of murdering or accidentally killing your own daughter - what would you do? Would you sit on your arse and let your whole world collapse around your ears? Or would you do everything you conceivably could to defend yourself and clear your name? If it was the latter, how exactly do you think that you would go about that?

I'll leave you to ponder.

.....or maybe I'm just clairvoyant!

The Times

The Daily Mail

The Daily Telegraph

Edited by Yaxx
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Chandler

Chandler

Posted
Posted (edited)

At last! Some riposters!

Mr/Mrs/Ms Yaxx - I don't quite know what the point is that you are making in your last post about the alleged eavesdropping operation mounted against the McCanns. Are you suggesting that your other insights serve as some kind of proof of your assertion that the resources required for electronic surveillance could not be expended on a case like this? Please enlighten me.

Just in case you are, all I'll say on that score for the moment is that you really don't grasp the enormity of what is at stake here. But your possible difficulties in this area pale into insiginificance compared to those of Mr/Mrs/Ms/1444ry.

1444ry, you appear to have a problem distinguishing between relatively trivial matters on the one hand and life and death issues on t'other:

1) The crime scene was not sealed and no attempt was made to recover DNA

I would suggest if you you reported say a burglary, it is highly doubtful that the area would be secured with police tape and the scene made sterile. And since the McCann's claimed the child had been abducted, it is equally unlikely that the scene would be treated as if it were a murder.

This remarkable statement suggests that you are either very young or emotionally immature, 1444ry. Are you seriously suggesting that the appropriate response to the abduction of minors is/should be roughly equivalent to that accorded to cases of breaking and entering? Does your civilisation grow foetuses in bell jars 1444ry or is it more of an 'add water to embryo powder and leave to set' kind of culture?

2) Road blocks were not put up and the border remained open

Why do you think they would they shut down their borders over a missing person?. It isn't the Queen or PM who has gone missing you know. If they every country shut down the borders over every person who went missing people would never manage to leave or enter!.

Unfortunately I am forced to dignify your infantile, callous crassness with a reponse. Do you consider that the investigation into the abduction and possible violation and murder of a four year old (Morrocan tourist snaps not withstanding) is nothing more than a missing person's enquiry?

You are either a sociopath or an Aspergers case...

3) Searches were conducted in the main by British expats

Don't know where you get your info, Chandler but a lot of locals, not just expats, took time off work to search for Madeleine.

It also seems you have a problem with semantics, 1444ry or did you simply overlook my qualification, 'in the main'? Look I'll even highlight it again for you this time...'in the main'...

At this juncture I should also point out that the LOCAL population of Praia da Luz and its environs is comprised mainly of...wait for it...expats. British expats. British expats who lounge about all day in their sun drenched holiday homes and retirement villas (but who every now and again it seems are stirred into taking over 'missing persons' enquiries).

Thanks for re-emphasising my point though.

4) Portuguese police did not use sniffer or cadavar dogs

Police with tracker dogs scoured a luxury Portuguese holiday resort as the anxious search for missing three-year-old Madeleine McCann entered its second day.

Copyright Press Association 2007.

At last something substantive! But how do you explain the following:

A) That most reports mention that the initial search for Madeleine McCann in the resort complex was undertaken by Ocean Club employees and residents?

B) That ALL video/film footage of the local searches showed ONLY local volunteers (our aforeentioned heroic British expats) using their own dogs? It's worth noting that the same PA story above mentions later that 'dogs were brought in.' I wonder if a little bit of journalistic conflation has crept in here?

C) That the Portuguese police requested the use of British police dogs (but only when put under pressure to do so) because - and allow me to paraphrase their reasoning thus - they had the wrong sort of canine? Indeed, the early 'Maddie wandered off down to the local supermarket due to the McCanns negligence' theory was supposedly the deduction of 'Rover of the Yard.'

5) The Portuguese police did not issue appeals for witnesses to come forward

Police searching for Madeleine McCann are starting to assess the response to their most detailed public appeal. Detectives issued a description of a man seen on the night the four-year-old went missing in the resort of Praia Da Luz in the Algarve.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6694275.stm

I have two observations to make on this BBC report:

A) It is dated the 26/05/07 - three weeks and two days after Madeleine McCann disappeared. Yet again you missed the qualification I made in my intro:

' In the first few days of the investigation it was noted that:...'

B) The third sentence down from the quote above reads like this:

Portuguese police went public with the appeal after pressure from the McCann family to move the investigation on.

Not much I can add to that is there?

6) Few police officers from surrounding regional forces were seconded to the enquiry.

Extra police teams have been brought in from Lisbon to help the search for Madeleine...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/6626251.stm

A fair point (once again you missed my critical qualification though - 'few.') - but not necessarily an accurate one If you have the patience to trawl through the media reports of policing in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance you will notice a steady regression from walking the walk to talking the talk on drafting in re enforcements through to outright retraction.

Most journalists, holiday makers and expats saw no evidence of police re enforcements on the ground. The self organised volunteer searches were conducted largely as a response to police inaction. And what little local police search activity there was was formally wound down on the 12th May barely NINE days after Madeleine disappeared.

When questioned about his forces desultory performance in the investigation the police chief assigned to the case in Portimao defended them with the claim that they had searched 500 properties. As mentioned previously in my ancient post (excavated by that redoubtable archaeologist, Indiana 'Futter' Jones) that would be an acceptable weekly performance target for four officers working in pairs (which gives you a little wriggle room 1444ry - two Portimao coppers ably assisted by two Lisbon rozzers!).

So please folks no more feeble, politically correct attempts at glossing over the Portuguese police's abysmal record on the McCann case (would our resident liberal thought troopers be bending over backwards to defend the Algarve 'filth' I wonder if the perfidious McCanns more snugly fitted the mandatory contemporary victim profile by being either black or muslim, or even left handed transexual lesbians?).

Indeed, the central issue that has to be addressed here is whether the Portuguese police were just mind bogglingly incompetent or whether the force as a whole was simply stood down.

And that's what I'm going to tackle next...

Edited by Chandler
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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted

Well. This picture. I have to say it seems to me possible it could be her.

If the experts think it is Madeleine, surely they will keep it to themselves until the biggest manhunt in Moroccan history is well underway. One suspects the people from control risks group who you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley are already there.

Fingers crossed.

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The People's Hero

The People's Hero

Posted
Posted
Well. This picture. I have to say it seems to me possible it could be her.

If the experts think it is Madeleine, surely they will keep it to themselves until the biggest manhunt in Moroccan history is well underway. One suspects the people from control risks group who you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley are already there.

Fingers crossed.

Yeah, you'd have thought that publically this will be played down whilst the Control Risks Group bods scour the place.

Like you say - fingers crossed.

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Geo V

Geo V

Posted
Posted
Well. This picture. I have to say it seems to me possible it could be her.

If the experts think it is Madeleine, surely they will keep it to themselves until the biggest manhunt in Moroccan history is well underway. One suspects the people from control risks group who you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley are already there.

Fingers crossed.

Early in her dissapearance little Maddy was rumoured to be seen in Morocco with no photographic evidence wasn't she? Lets hope the picture is of her so that they can get her back home and I suppose her parents off the hook as they are taking some flak at the moment and it could easily be unwarranted.

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted

Many apologies in advance if anyone finds this offensive and I genuinely hope this is a genuine lead.

Call me cynical but this seems a bit convenient given team McCann's appointment of Clarence Mitchell and his media bombardment since. In all probability this is a hoax.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Posted
Many apologies in advance if anyone finds this offensive and I genuinely hope this is a genuine lead.

Call me cynical but this seems a bit convenient given team McCann's appointment of Clarence Mitchell and his media bombardment since. In all probability this is a hoax.

You ignore the rather obvious point that anyone approached to be the photographer would clearly be able to make far more money selling that story to the british press than the McCann's could afford. I wouldn't like to emply you as a statistician.

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted (edited)
You ignore the rather obvious point that anyone approached to be the photographer would clearly be able to make far more money selling that story to the british press than the McCann's could afford. I wouldn't like to emply you as a statistician.

Look at the links below. I suggest that the similarity between the Moroccan picture and that of the official Find Madeleine Campaign picture (top left) are a little too similar to discount "doctoring".

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?...mp;postcount=26

Edited by l444ry
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