Madeleine McCann

[Jackirius]

That's because it's largely an absolute pile of gash these days.

Good point, or as i've just seen someone say on Facebook, 'Valid shout'. <_<

I think i may add that to the 'Words i hate' thread.

Edited 16 May 2011 by Jackirius

[Zingari]

Without a body it is very hard to get a conviction, unless there is a confession.

As Kate Healy refused to answer the PJ's questions and then scarpered back to the UK, then refused a return to Portugal to stage a reconstruction, this was hardly going to happen.

The PJ have the evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment but without a body cannot be sure how she met her death, accident or otherwise, so can hardly charge anyone with murder. That is why the case has been shelved until new evidence emerges.

sorry , am i missing something , why do you refer to her as Kate Healy and not McCann ? is there some relevance to this ?

[Finnegan]

It's her maiden name. The relevance I don't know unless it's some snarky attempt to vilify her by refusing to give her the same name as the child.

I hardly think it's some left-field conspiracy theory to believe that the McCanns could be just as guilty as anyone else, mind. The girl's disappearance is a complete mystery with very little widely-accepted events or suspects, it's not impossible that her parents know far more than they concede.

It's also completely possible that they're entirely innocent and tragic victims of circumstance but who knows?

[l444ry]

sorry , am i missing something , why do you refer to her as Kate Healy and not McCann ? is there some relevance to this ?

Here’s an odd thing. Kate McCann travelled under the name of Kate Healy – that is what is on her passport. All the official documents she signed in Portgual – including her police interviews – she signed as K Healy. On the crèche records on signing-in sheet for each day Madeleine was signed in by ‘K Healy’ – except on May 3rd when she was signed in by ‘K McCann’.

I was on autopilot and will refer to her as McCann in future.

Edited 17 May 2011 by l444ry

[Jon the Hat]

Here’s an odd thing. Kate McCann travelled under the name of Kate Healy – that is what is on her passport. All the official documents she signed in Portgual – including her police interviews – she signed as K Healy. On the crèche records on signing-in sheet for each day Madeleine was signed in by ‘K Healy’ – except on May 3rd when she was signed in by ‘K McCann’.

I was on autopilot and will refer to her as McCann in future.

Seems to be there are as many holes in the "they are guilty" theory as there are the other way round, and it beggars belief that anyone who was guilty would still be putting themselves and their story in the spotlight after 4 years when they could easily have said " we are moving on for the sake of the twins" and walked away from it all.

[Finnegan]

Seems to be there are as many holes in the "they are guilty" theory as there are the other way round, and it beggars belief that anyone who was guilty would still be putting themselves and their story in the spotlight after 4 years when they could easily have said " we are moving on for the sake of the twins" and walked away from it all.

Munchausen by proxy.

[hackneyfox]

Mortgage payments?

[Jon the Hat]

Munchausen by proxy.

This is my issue though. You seem to have to keep adding theory on top of theory to find them responsible.

[Zingari]

Here’s an odd thing. Kate McCann travelled under the name of Kate Healy – that is what is on her passport. All the official documents she signed in Portgual – including her police interviews – she signed as K Healy. On the crèche records on signing-in sheet for each day Madeleine was signed in by ‘K Healy’ – except on May 3rd when she was signed in by ‘K McCann’.

I was on autopilot and will refer to her as McCann in future.

Ah yes i remember,

Was it was something along lines of a police conspiracy theory ( bloody loony conspiracy theorists ) that Madeleine was not actually in the crèche that day and that another child was signed in under her name and that someone else signed her in as K McCann – and that the other person wouldn’t have known that it wasn't Kate’s usual signature ?

Thereby making it look as though a false alibi was being created , and as usual tripping up on the minor details .

Did they check the signatures for handwriting style etc ? What did they find ?

it's amazing how minor inconsistent details often raise suspicions , (and there's plenty of those in the 911 accounts)

Edited 17 May 2011 by Zingari

[OzFox]

it's amazing how minor inconsistent details often raise suspicions , (and there's plenty of those in the 911 accounts)

Just leave it, let it go. Come into the light, my friend!

[Zingari]

Just leave it, let it go. Come into the light, my friend!

never never never , i enjoy it too much

[Houdini Logic]

This was tragic four years ago, now it's just annoying

[dave the caveman]

What a grim and depressing thread

[Zingari]

Obviously Madeline is/ was a selfish and inconsiderate little girl for causing great annoyance and boredom to some FT posters

[Houdini Logic]

Obviously Madeline is/ was a selfish and inconsiderate little girl for causing great annoyance and boredom to some FT posters

It's unfortunate you don't understand I'm talking about the media, the public, the conspiracy theorists and the general hysteria, rather than an innocent little girl

[ozleicester]

May i respectfully suggest that anyone who believes that the Mc canns are guilty because of their unusual behaviour or odd responses to questions.. pleae familiaarise yourself with THIS

not just the wiki pge as they are of course unreliable, but, look into the facts, the things that dont add up.. and the HELL that the parents were put through because some people (almost an entire nation) didnt agree with how they acted after the disapearance.

the parents were found guilty..on erroneous evidence.. they went to prison because of false testimony.. and all this ONTOP of the fact that they lost their child.. Try to imagine that

[Zingari]

It's unfortunate you don't understand I'm talking about the media, the public, the conspiracy theorists and the general hysteria, rather than an innocent little girl

i knew what you meant really , i was just making a silly joke of it

it would probably have been obviously so in person , but written it looks different

[Mack]

For what it's worth here's my 2 pennies worth...

As a parent of young children myself the thought of leaving my child unattended in an unlocked apartment right at the side of the road make me shudder. Only an incredibly foolish, naive or uncaring parent would do something like that.

And I think this whole story sad story needs to be prefaced with that fact. They left their children in a vulnerable position. They let Madeleine down.

With that out of the way it is undoubtedly true that the Portuguese Police were way out of their depth compared to modern British investigative techniques and under immense pressure for a result from the media they did the easy thing and pointed the finger at the parents and tried to sweep the whole thing under the carpet.

This also suited the local tourism industry which was losing significant trade in the wake of the story.

Lastly and for a reason I cant explain the 24 hour news media in this country has fuelled a morbid and unhealthy obsession amongst large parts of our population with stories of this nature.

And people who get enthralled by these sad tales seem to become all absorbed and over critical of anyone who dare say or do anything but show unreserved support for anyone affected by such an event.

This also becomes apparent with outpourings for organisations such as Help for Heroes.

Life has always been unfair and has always had it's cruel and wicked people. I am sorry for the parents despite their mistakes. As a well paid upper middle class family they had the money and the wherewith-all to get a high profile media campaign going and keep it going even 4 years later.

Nothing would surprise me in the outcome of this incident, even the parents knowing more than they are letting on.

I can tell you there are people in the British media who still think they are culpable, and that their unorthodox social life was at times a priority over the care of their children.

I have no idea if that is true or not.

[Finnegan]

This is my issue though. You seem to have to keep adding theory on top of theory to find them responsible.

I was jokin, mun!

[Houdini Logic]

i knew what you meant really , i was just making a silly joke of it

it would probably have been obviously so in person , but written it looks different

Fair enough - your humour just probably couldn't make it through my bad mood filter

[l444ry]

Just a snippet for those that think the PJ are incompetent sardine munchers. A signed statement from a friend of the McCanns regarding David Payne who was holidaying in Portugal with them -:

To: Ricard Paiva - Polícia Judiciária

From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL - Leicester Police Constabulary

Ref: David Payne

Date: October 24, 2007

........Two or three days had gone by, all of us staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults, that is, the couples that I mentioned, were on a patio outside of the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between Dave and Gerry who I believe were both speaking about Madeleine. I don’t remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like “her”, referring to Madeleine, “would do this”..

When he mentioned “this”, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, while with the other hand he made a circle around his nipple, in a circulatory movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as is saying “did someone else hear that, or was it just me”. Silence registered in all the conversations and after, we all began conversing again.....

Signed testimony.

Edited 17 May 2011 by l444ry

[Jon the Hat]

Just a snippet for those that think the PJ are incompetent sardine munchers. A signed statement from a friend of the McCanns regarding David Payne who was holidaying in Portugal with them -:

To: Ricard Paiva - Polícia Judiciária

From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL - Leicester Police Constabulary

Ref: David Payne

Date: October 24, 2007

........Two or three days had gone by, all of us staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults, that is, the couples that I mentioned, were on a patio outside of the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between Dave and Gerry who I believe were both speaking about Madeleine. I don’t remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like “her”, referring to Madeleine, “would do this”..

When he mentioned “this”, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, while with the other hand he made a circle around his nipple, in a circulatory movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as is saying “did someone else hear that, or was it just me”. Silence registered in all the conversations and after, we all began conversing again.....

Signed testimony.

Signed testimony gained by the British Police? Not quite sure why that addresses the point about the competence of a regional police department Vs say the specialists of New Scotland Yard - assuming that was your point.

[l444ry]

Signed testimony gained by the British Police? Not quite sure why that addresses the point about the competence of a regional police department Vs say the specialists of New Scotland Yard - assuming that was your point.

No, that was not my point. Why don't you stick to the content matter contained within the statement?

With your knowledge of this affair I doubt you'd remember that the PJ had to drag these interviews out of the British Police, probably due to the political pressure from above.

Ad while your at it, make your mind up. A couple of posts ago you were discounting the Case Files as a fit up by the PJ!!

Your as inconsistent as a Tapas witness testimony......

Edited 17 May 2011 by l444ry

[Jon the Hat]

No, that was not my point. Why don't you stick to the content matter contained within the statement?

With your knowledge of this affair I doubt you'd remember that the PJ had to drag these interviews out of the British Police, probably due to the political pressure from above.

Ad while your at it, make your mind up. A couple of posts ago you were discounting the Case Files as a fit up by the PJ!!

Your as inconsistent as a Tapas witness testimony......

I am not quite sure what your point is then. The content of the statement is disturbing certainly, but what does it actually tell us?

And I am not saying that the case files are a fit up, just that the case files would clearly state the view of the PJ, which police forces all over the world have proven is not always correct.

Edited 17 May 2011 by Jon the Hat

[ozleicester]

I am not quite sure what your point is then. The content of the statement is disturbing certainly, but what does it actually tell us?

That people who dont act as we think they should.. are child murderers....

Around the country, women in particular were sceptical about Chamberlain's story because she and her husband, Michael - given a suspended jail term for being an accessory to murder - showed little emotion in public and never joined the search for their daughter's body. There was also hostility towards them because of their devout Seventh Day Adventist beliefs.