How Was Your Day?

[Finnegan]

Explain to me how making someone go and sign on every single day is a productive way of encouraging young people to work? EVERY DAY.

Have you ever signed on? Seriously? It's going in, sitting in a queue, having a book signed and walking back out again.

It'd be a better use of the job centre's time and the applicant's time if they had a solid, thorough session with an actual career adviser every week giving genuine advice and - if necessary - completely hand holding people through the process.

Making it inconvenient to sign on will weed out a fractional minority of the career dossers and that's all it'll achieve.

What a stupid idea.

[Jon the Hat]

I think it's a good idea. Should stop young people from falling into welfare dependency too easily.

It should actually be quite easy for the scotchman to get a job, so I doubt he'll be on it long. Not sure it'll be his dream job but such is life.

 

Exactly.  Pain in the arse for the genuine jobseeker, which I am sure the Doc is, but necessary to stop people staying in bed.

No, nor do I have the fitness to ride all the way there. Even if i did though, I didn't see any bike racks around it

 

You don't own a bike?  Get a bike!  Great chance to get yourself fit man.  Good luck with the job search.

[Jon the Hat]

Explain to me how making someone go and sign on every single day is a productive way of encouraging young people to work? EVERY DAY.

Have you ever signed on? Seriously? It's going in, sitting in a queue, having a book signed and walking back out again.

It'd be a better use of the job centre's time and the applicant's time if they had a solid, thorough session with an actual career adviser every week giving genuine advice and - if necessary - completely hand holding people through the process.

Making it inconvenient to sign on will weed out a fractional minority of the career dossers and that's all it'll achieve.

What a stupid idea.

 

They should have to do it by 9am.  You are a pansy.

[Finnegan]

Exactly. Pain in the arse for the genuine jobseeker, which I am sure the Doc is, but necessary to stop people staying in bed.

So genuine job seekers are just an irrelevant, tiny minority that we'll happily inconvenience for the sakes of the vast swathes of benefit fraudsters?

Edited 28 May 2015 by Finnegan

[Jon the Hat]

So genuine job seekers are just an irrelevant, tiny minority that we'll happily inconvenience for the sakes of the vast swathes of benefit fraudsters?

 

Now you are getting it!

Seriously though, it would be very easy to fall into the habit of sitting at home and waiting for your benefit money to hit your bank account.  A compulsory daily journey keeps you in the habit and routine of getting up and out for the day. 

[Guest MattP]

Explain to me how making someone go and sign on every single day is a productive way of encouraging young people to work? EVERY DAY.

Have you ever signed on? Seriously? It's going in, sitting in a queue, having a book signed and walking back out again.

It'd be a better use of the job centre's time and the applicant's time if they had a solid, thorough session with an actual career adviser every week giving genuine advice and - if necessary - completely hand holding people through the process.

Making it inconvenient to sign on will weed out a fractional minority of the career dossers and that's all it'll achieve.

What a stupid idea.

 

I'm sure Ken would disagree with you here, he is full of stories of it not being this easy anymore, all sorts of sanctions because they actually weren't applying for jobs and they weren't actually just getting the paperwork 'signed off' - did you last sign on under Gordon Brown?

 

If it annoys people as much as this it seems to it makes work every day sound a far more attractive place than making some effort to get some free money from the taxpayer every day. I'd be delighted to see what you have said regarding career advisors implemented, I'd also be delighted if this does weed out the so called 'fractional minority' (although I think that's debatable now given the amount of employment we have(, this is much about the message being sent to people as it is the financial aspect.

Edited 28 May 2015 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

Seriously though, it would be very easy to fall into the habit of sitting at home and waiting for your benefit money to hit your bank account.  A compulsory daily journey keeps you in the habit and routine of getting up and out for the day. 

 

Nailed it.

[MPH]

Guess there's also  no better  motivation to get a job than having to go to that place every day....

Edited 28 May 2015 by MPH

[ramboacdc]

i get the point there about keeping them in routine but for someone who has to get a bus ride to the job centre and cant claim it back on expenses seems....well rough aint the word!

also who picked that age demographic to aim for?! 

[Finnegan]

I understand that sentiment, I appreciate where you're coming from, but if you believe that it's actually a good idea in practice then you're drastically out of touch.

Like I said, I'm up for more regular meetings than fortnightly, definitely, I'd really like to see more thorough job meetings with proper advisors who can actually help a young job seeker. I'm all for encouraging as many people in to work and off JSA as possible.

But compulsory, daily signing on achieves nothing other than pleasing a few draconian tories who think all claimants should be treated as suspicious by default.

It completely sends out the wrong message. It doesn't give encouragement or self esteem, it just further emphasises that the jobseeker is just an ugly statistic.

[Jon the Hat]

i get the point there about keeping them in routine but for someone who has to get a bus ride to the job centre and cant claim it back on expenses seems....well rough aint the word!

also who picked that age demographic to aim for?! 

 

That would be the period where people are out of education / training or a job for the first time and the habit of getting up and out everyday could easily be lost.

[Jon the Hat]

I understand that sentiment, I appreciate where you're coming from, but if you believe that it's actually a good idea in practice then you're drastically out of touch.

Like I said, I'm up for more regular meetings than fortnightly, definitely, I'd really like to see more thorough job meetings with proper advisors who can actually help a young job seeker. I'm all for encouraging as many people in to work and off JSA as possible.

But compulsory, daily signing on achieves nothing other than pleasing a few draconian tories who think all claimants should be treated as suspicious by default.

It completely sends out the wrong message. It doesn't give encouragement or self esteem, it just further emphasises that the jobseeker is just an ugly statistic.

 

As Matt said, those are all good ideas, and I am sure there is lots going on in that space (I don't think they target the short term walk in jobseeker with their full attention) but I think you hugely underestimate the power of daily routine.  Remember Lamby when we was being daft about not wanting jobs as they interfered with his other activities?  Easily done.

[Guest MattP]

I understand that sentiment, I appreciate where you're coming from, but if you believe that it's actually a good idea in practice then you're drastically out of touch.

 

I'm a Conservative voter with sympathies towards positions UKIP have, the former just won a General Election and the latter came third in terms of votes.

 

I'm as 'in touch' as you pretty much can be.

[Strokes]

Getting the bus into town each day to sign on, is surely better than sat at home with all them distractions like xboxes, daytime TV, catch up on demand, porn, weed, etc. You can still apply for jobs on your phone whilst on the bus, stop off at the library print some CVs and hand them in at potential suitors along the way. I think its a great idea.

[Finnegan]

I don't underestimate anything, I've been there, I've also met a lot of other young guys in the target group and most of them don't have a clue how to find a job let alone sell themselves to an employer.

It sounds ridiculous, even hilarious hilarious, but it's true. You can be as dismissive as you want about that "quality" of claimant / applicant but actually, the majority of young people want a job. They want money to go on holiday with their mates, get mashed up, impress girls, run cars, have a flat, et all. You can't do all of that on JSA.

You can disabled in a three bed council semi watching freeview on a wide screen telly, popping out kids and eating Rustlers but that's hardly living.

But you're talking about a whole generation that don't really know where to start, who've been let down by a mixture of their parents, their estates and the academic focused education system that alienated them in the first place.

What do these kids get from signing on every day other than getting up in the morning? There's **** all to stop them immediately going back home to bed or to sit infront of fifa all day if that's their prerogative.

[Strokes]

I don't underestimate anything, I've been there, I've also met a lot of other young guys in the target group and most of them don't have a clue how to find a job let alone sell themselves to an employer.

It sounds ridiculous, even hilarious hilarious, but it's true. You can be as dismissive as you want about that "quality" of claimant / applicant but actually, the majority of young people want a job. They want money to go on holiday with their mates, get mashed up, impress girls, run cars, have a flat, et all. You can't do all of that on JSA.

You can disabled in a three bed council semi watching freeview on a wide screen telly, popping out kids and eating Rustlers but that's hardly living.

But you're talking about a whole generation that don't really know where to start, who've been let down by a mixture of their parents, their estates and the academic focused education system that alienated them in the first place.

What do these kids get from signing on every day other than getting up in the morning? There's **** all to stop them immediately going back home to bed or to sit infront of fifa all day if that's their prerogative.

When I was warehousing a few years back, the agency would employ the odd kid straight off the dole. Often the same thing occurred, first day they were excellent, full of enthusiasm. second day down beat, beaten. Third day no show. You could stretch this over two weeks for some but the pattern was the same. If they had a daily routine that involved getting out already, they might have more staying power, who knows.

It was a shitty job, for shitty money I might add.

[The Doctor]

Providing they get a day return bus pass to do (They don't which is wrong imo) it I think it's a fantastic idea, let's give them a huge incentive to work straight away rather than let them fall into an easy strain of welfare dependency. Time to write the wrong of the previous generations.

 

It's not dumb at all and I think it's shocking to call it that, we should be doing everything we can to get these people into work.

 

It's a decent pub, what are you doing out there anyway? Have you moved?

 

In which case the meetings need to be far more helpful - yesterdays was essentially just processing my application, fair enough but this morning my appointment basically consisted of being given my job coaches cousins life story, about how he used to work in R&D, then after the 7/7 bombings got treated as suspicious because he was a bearded muslim, so quit and moved into a sales job closer to home, then being told to sign here and go away. Frankly my shopping trip while I was in town (Other half turns 21 next Tuesday, so needed a card and present for her) was more productive. 

 

Frankly I've got more out of working independently this afternoon - discussed a consultative sales role with a recruitment agency and did interview prep for next week, both far more useful than being told the life story of someone I don't know, whose circumstances are far different to my own. As finners has said - if it was a good, in-depth meeting with help in for instance interview preparation or job searching I'd be fine with that - half an hour to an hour a day developing employability of college/university leavers? great idea - daily meetings which have little beyond "sign here please" - bit of a waste of time.

 

I think it's a good idea. Should stop young people from falling into welfare dependency too easily.

It should actually be quite easy for the scotchman to get a job, so I doubt he'll be on it long. Not sure it'll be his dream job but such is life.

 

I'm not even looking for my dream job at this point - was at the start, but pretty much every R&D role wants 2/3 years of industrial lab experience - that's a catch 22 I'm never getting straight out of, I've just been searching for entry lab roles for months now.

 

 

Exactly.  Pain in the arse for the genuine jobseeker, which I am sure the Doc is, but necessary to stop people staying in bed.

 

You don't own a bike?  Get a bike!  Great chance to get yourself fit man.  Good luck with the job search.

 

I'm not a bike person tbh - when I get out of the house it's for a long walk, or to go to university/work: university was within walking distance and I got a lift in for my holiday job.

[SystonFox]

Just been for a run. Very warm out today

[Webbo]

Happy Birthday scouser.

[DB11]

re: Signing On.

How hard is it to sign up to an agency and get any job from office work to factory work?

 

It's not hard. It's a choice.

[bovril]

Happy birthday young Scouse.

[Wymsey]

re: Signing On.

How hard is it to sign up to an agency and get any job from office work to factory work?

 

It's not hard. It's a choice.

Can be for two reasons:

 

1.) Some agencies decide which candidates are put forward for certain jobs; and hence you could miss out/don't know if the briefing has altered.

 

2.) And some can be rather impersonal and not keep in contact (which is perhaps the bigger agencies more); this would probably affect newly-unemployed people.

 

Edit: Happy Birthday Scousefox.

Edited 28 May 2015 by Wymeswold fox

[RowlattsFox]

I work closely with job centres and deliver from them 3 days a week so see a bit that goes on. Can't speak for all locations but where I work there are a small number of claimants who sign daily and they are usually long term unemployed and generally who otherwise couldn't or wouldn't complete a sufficient job search. They get the opportunity to use the computers within the job centres. Generally though I think it's a waste of resources with already limited staff.

[Soar Fox]

Happy birthday Scouse. Hope you like your new Lacoste tracksuit.

[Carl the Llama]

Have a Birthday Scousy.