What are you watching now?

[Rincewind]

Me too but putting childrens and vulnerable peoples lives at risk should be avoided. I would acess who would be at greater risk if a persons income was reduced. Then I would make a decision based on statisics gathered from relevant organisations.

[Webbo]

2 questions;

a) Why has "tax avoided", "tax evaded" and"Tax uncollected" not been put in 3 separate circles like the things it's compared to?

b) Who are the "Tax justice network" and why should we trust their figures?

[Bilo]

2 questions;

a) Why has "tax avoided", "tax evaded" and"Tax uncollected" not been put in 3 separate circles like the things it's compared to?

b) Who are the "Tax justice network" and why should we trust their figures?

 

It's still fairly clear that, using the DWP estimates, that the amount of benefits paid to people who weren't entitled comes to £2.6 billion.

 

This is a drop in the ocean compared to even the more conservative HMRC estimate of £30 billion in unpaid tax. The question on the diagram is a perfectly valid one in my humble opinion, even if it was originally intended to be rhetorical.

 

That's if we disregard the TJN figures, and I'll let you decide whether that's a good idea or not. http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_content.php?idcatart=103

[MooseBreath]

Looking at the numbers for fraud is pretty pointless. One because obviously they don't know how much fraud is committed, that's how it becomes fraud. And two because most of what the hard working everyman would class as fraud is actually legal.

Better to look at the overall numbers. £160bn spent on welfare last year. Which completely dwarfs the £30bn tax avoidance, and indeed all other types of public spending. I think you could easily label 20% of benefits as 'generous' and not what the system was designed for. So roughly equal to the tax avoidance in my book. Ignoring the obvious employment and cheap consumerism benefits that the large tax avoiders provide to the economy of course.

Edited 13 July 2013 by MooseBreath

[Rincewind]

There are many who do not know or dont claim benifits that they are entitled to.I have been told by an ex-official that they are not allowed to inform the claimants  of what they are entitled to unless they ask for the information.They sign a document to this affect and are bound by the secrecy act.  So a clerk at the benifit office cannot hand out the list of entitlements. Without knowing many are suffering hardship.

I do not begrudge anyone a decent living but to say it is fair for them to avoid paying the correct amount of tax when people are having to use food banks is scandalous in the 21st century Britain.

Edited 13 July 2013 by Rincewind

[Charl91]

There are many who do not know or dont claim benifits that they are entitled to.

 

Thank god for that!

[Rincewind]

Thank god for that!

 

 

really?

 

anyway the point is the amount fiddled at the lower end is small but it is a lot easier to recover. Doesn't help when the ones providing the figures could include accountants that help clients at the other end. Then there are all the hard-working tax payers in the middle paying the price for being shafted by tax dodgers and scroungers.

[MooseBreath]

Then there are all the hard-working tax payers in the middle paying the price for being shafted by tax dodgers and scroungers.

Amazing how quickly you've turned on the scroungers now you can say your handouts are a pension rather than JSA.

[Bilo]

Looking at the numbers for fraud is pretty pointless. One because obviously they don't know how much fraud is committed, that's how it becomes fraud. And two because most of what the hard working everyman would class as fraud is actually legal.

Better to look at the overall numbers. £160bn spent on welfare last year. Which completely dwarfs the £30bn tax avoidance, and indeed all other types of public spending. I think you could easily label 20% of benefits as 'generous' and not what the system was designed for. So roughly equal to the tax avoidance in my book. Ignoring the obvious employment and cheap consumerism benefits that the large tax avoiders provide to the economy of course.

 

It's been said before and will be said again, but the majority of people claiming benefits are actually working. 

 

Much of the £160bn you mention in terms of benefits is essential for the survival of hard working people or given to people who truly need it to survive. This includes tax credits, child benefits, pensions, disability living allowance etc. A civilised society ensures its citizens are cared for whether or not they are able to work. Real scroungers who can't be bothered to go out and find work are very much in the minority.

[Rincewind]

Some good points made.

 

Saw an interesting article about the rise of hardship payments in relation to the bedroom tax from working families but I won't post it.

 

I'm all for a quiet life without fueling another argument. Everyones entitled to their opinion but I'm not a great debater so best if I lay off for a whileI agree with most posters on most things socalm down.

I have posted the links on more relevant sites and forums. A football one is not appropriate.

 

I'd rather post in the joke thread.

Edited 13 July 2013 by Rincewind

[MooseBreath]

It's been said before and will be said again, but the majority of people claiming benefits are actually working.

Much of the £160bn you mention in terms of benefits is essential for the survival of hard working people or given to people who truly need it to survive. This includes tax credits, child benefits, pensions, disability living allowance etc. A civilised society ensures its citizens are cared for whether or not they are able to work. Real scroungers who can't be bothered to go out and find work are very much in the minority.

The majority of people who claim benefits are actually working because they are the scummers who thrash out kids safe in the knowledge that the state will be morally obliged to provide for their upbringing. If you don't have kids then you don't need benefits if you're on minimum wage. If you can't afford kids without state help you shouldn't be having kids. Providing welfare that allows people to indulge themselves in such selfish irresponsibility is not caring for them.

[Rincewind]

[MikeyT]

[MooseBreath]

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Oh my god lol lol

[Rincewind]

lol lol lol

[HEGGSY]

Oh my god, that's incredible lol lol lol

[The Year Of The Fox]

BBC3 The Killers Live.

Cracking band seen them at the NEC last year

[The Year Of The Fox]

, if you're on Facebook search for Jim'll paint it.

You could have his job

[Rincewind]

Watching Sherlock. Think I may have seen it before. Last in the first series?

[Soar Fox]

That's just had me in bits lol lol

[MikeyT]

[The Year Of The Fox]

The Killers are killing this. Amazing band.

[Rincewind]

Sherlock must have been last but one. It wasn't the first one.

[MikeyT]