What grinds my gears...

[ozleicester]

There is a very big difference between cruelty to animals and well cared for livestock being humanely slaughtered. Also we use different standards for different animals based on our perception of them as pets or otherwise.

I understand that this is a easy belief to hold, but we need to be honest about this, you cannot KILL..HUMANELY?

An oxymoron (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.

Yes there are less painfull ways of doing it, but no matter what, the animals are being killed!..and why is it ok to kill and eat a cow... but not a dog or cat?

DO NOT watch the following video if you are offended by animal cruelty... however, if you believe that animals are treated humanely by our food producers, perhaps you should.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watc

I just removed two links to videos, because they are so incredibly offensive, but honestly if you need proof.. just google slaughterhouse cruelty.. but be prepared.

[FoxyPV]

I understand that this is a easy belief to hold, but we need to be honest about this, you cannot KILL..HUMANELY?

An oxymoron (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.

Yes there are less painfull ways of doing it, but no matter what, the animals are being killed!..and why is it ok to kill and eat a cow... but not a dog or cat?

DO NOT watch the following video if you are offended by animal cruelty... however, if you believe that animals are treated humanely by our food producers, perhaps you should.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watc

I just removed two links to videos, because they are so incredibly offensive, but honestly if you need proof.. just google slaughterhouse cruelty.. but be prepared.

It is if you're Yuki Abe

:thumbsup: to the rest of it, Oz.

[Christoph]

This picture is worth a thousand animals death

[Jackirius]

But that back on the grill for 10 minutes please.

[FoxyPV]

But that back on the grill for 10 minutes please.

Fruit.

I'm a veggie and even I know a steak HAS to be medium rare to be enjoyed.

[ajthefox]

People who bitch at you, for you not doing their job.

It makes me laugh when people hear I'm a vegetarian (pescetarian if I'm to be exact I like a bit of fish now and again (not just from Ms Foxy ) ) because I don't conform to the stereotype people have in their head of what a vegetarian is and especially because I play sport.

If you want to eat meat then that's your choice. A vegetarian diet is a much healthier way to live.

Out of interest, why is it that you eat fish but not anything else? I've never really understood counting fish separately with regards to vegetarianism because to me, if you're going to be a vegetarian based on the moral issue of killing animals then picking and choosing which ones you eat defies the point of it in the first place.

[Finnegan]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks it isn't natural for us to eat meat is a grade A plonker.

How else do you think it happened if not "naturally?" It's not like it's a very modern, recent thing and we've suddenly gone "oh right, I wonder what a cow would taste like." Hell, the entire species "cow" wouldn't exist if we hadn't domesticated an animal for centuries for the very purpose of food.

What exactly constitutes unnatural? This is how we have evolved, naturally, to be. Besides, we quite blatantly don't have herbivorous teeth, we have powerful incisors for biting flesh and grinding molars for chewing various foodstuffs; we are archetypal omnivores.

Edited 19 May 2011 by Sosban Fach

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks it isn't natural for us to eat meat is a grade A plonker.

How else do you think it happened if not "naturally?" It's not like it's a very modern, recent thing and we've suddenly gone "oh right, I wonder what a cow would taste like." Hell, the entire species "cow" wouldn't exist if we hadn't domesticated an animal for centuries for the very purpose of food.

What exactly constitutes unnatural? This is how we have evolved, naturally, to be. Besides, we quite blatantly don't have herbivorous teeth, we have powerful incisors for biting flesh and grinding molars for chewing various foodstuffs; we are archetypal omnivores.

It's only taken you close to 20,000 posts but you have finally made a decent point

[Alexikokopops]

Does it really matter? Why can't the people who eat meat do it without banging on at vegetarians, and why can't vegetarians each vegetables without banging on at meat eaters? Why can't you all pipe down and enjoy a steak/nut loaf?

This includes you pescatarians too! Don't think you're getting off lightly in this!

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Does it really matter? Why can't the people who eat meat do it without banging on at vegetarians, and why can't vegetarians each vegetables without banging on at meat eaters? Why can't you all pipe down and enjoy a steak/nut loaf?

This includes you pescatarians too! Don't think you're getting off lightly in this!

I just wished more girls would eat some man meat!

I heard Roo meat is tasty this time of the year

[Finnegan]

Does it really matter? Why can't the people who eat meat do it without banging on at vegetarians, and why can't vegetarians each vegetables without banging on at meat eaters? Why can't you all pipe down and enjoy a steak/nut loaf?

This includes you pescatarians too! Don't think you're getting off lightly in this!

I generally don't give a toss until people start trying to justify their vegetarianism with ridiculous rhetoric about the fact that meat is actually poison or that we're not natural meat eaters or whatever the fuck else.

We've been doing it for millennia and, newsflash, the human race is still here. It's obviously not that fucking bad for us.

Generally I'm with you. If you don't like meat, don't eat it. If you're too much of a pussy to eat sheep without blubbing about baby lambs, don't eat it. But Christ alive shut up bemoaning everyone else.

Oh. And PETA can definitely get fucked.

[Jon the Hat]

I understand that this is a easy belief to hold, but we need to be honest about this, you cannot KILL..HUMANELY?

An oxymoron (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.

Yes there are less painfull ways of doing it, but no matter what, the animals are being killed!..and why is it ok to kill and eat a cow... but not a dog or cat?

DO NOT watch the following video if you are offended by animal cruelty... however, if you believe that animals are treated humanely by our food producers, perhaps you should.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watc

I just removed two links to videos, because they are so incredibly offensive, but honestly if you need proof.. just google slaughterhouse cruelty.. but be prepared.

Regardless of where you consider the line to be, neglect and deliberate cruelty to animals is not the same as the process of raising and slaughtering animals for food. That doesn't mean that we treat animals well enough in that process however.

[ozleicester]

Doing something for a long time...does not immediatley make it "natural"

Just because you breed (create) something, doesnt entitle you to kill it...ask your kids if they would mind.

In January, 2005 ,The National Institute of Health, Dept. of Health and Human Services officially added heterocyclic amines, chemicals created during the grilling of meat to it's hit list of cancer causing agents.

I fail to understand how anyone can consider killing something to not be cruel. (excluding euthanasia etc.)

It always intrigues me how quickly the macho meat eaters get upset when a vegetarian speaks, I am merely expressing an opinion...rest assured i am not going to come round and steal your meat during the night, im not trying to change your meat filled lifestyle, so dont be frightened...after all, im only a vege so im weak, pallow and sickly.

However, theres no point in you moaning at your computer screen the next time someone drops a cat in a rubbish bin... or mistreats the local puppy... coz you have killed that animal on your plate.

[The Doctor]

Doing something for a long time...does not immediatley make it "natural"

Just because you breed (create) something, doesnt entitle you to kill it...ask your kids if they would mind.

In January, 2005 ,The National Institute of Health, Dept. of Health and Human Services officially added heterocyclic amines, chemicals created during the grilling of meat to it's hit list of cancer causing agents.

I fail to understand how anyone can consider killing something to not be cruel. (excluding euthanasia etc.)

It always intrigues me how quickly the macho meat eaters get upset when a vegetarian speaks, I am merely expressing an opinion...rest assured i am not going to come round and steal your meat during the night, im not trying to change your meat filled lifestyle, so dont be frightened...after all, im only a vege so im weak, pallow and sickly.

However, theres no point in you moaning at your computer screen the next time someone drops a cat in a rubbish bin... or mistreats the local puppy... coz you have killed that animal on your plate.

They claim pretty much every thing causes cancer.

And they aren't killed in a cruel way, it's quick & painless.

[Jon the Hat]

Just because you breed (create) something, doesnt entitle you to kill it...ask your kids if they would mind.

However, theres no point in you moaning at your computer screen the next time someone drops a cat in a rubbish bin... or mistreats the local puppy... coz you have killed that animal on your plate.

I find it hard to believe you cannot see the difference between killing to eat and killing for amusement. Have you never had sympathy with the anti fox hunting brigade?

What about the difference between harvesting crops for food and burning crops through arson?

You can argue that eating meat is inefficient, you can argue it is morally wrong, but you cannot argue it is the same as wanton cruelty because is simply isn't. So I will continue to condemn cruelty while eating meat thank you very much. As I said before, that is not to say meat production is perfect, it needs to improve to keep up with societies current perception on what is humane & acceptable.

[FoxyPV]

Out of interest, why is it that you eat fish but not anything else? I've never really understood counting fish separately with regards to vegetarianism because to me, if you're going to be a vegetarian based on the moral issue of killing animals then picking and choosing which ones you eat defies the point of it in the first place.

I eat fish because I have killed and gutted fish myself. I can square it with myself that if and when required it would be no problem for me to prepare fish. I rarely eat fish anyway. I can't same the same for meat - I have neither the heart nor the will to do so.

I became a vegetarian not out of any moral issues about how animals were treated but because of my own morals.

I generally don't give a toss until people start trying to justify their vegetarianism with ridiculous rhetoric about the fact that meat is actually poison or that we're not natural meat eaters or whatever the fuck else.

We've been doing it for millennia and, newsflash, the human race is still here. It's obviously not that fucking bad for us.

Generally I'm with you. If you don't like meat, don't eat it. If you're too much of a pussy to eat sheep without blubbing about baby lambs, don't eat it. But Christ alive shut up bemoaning everyone else.

Oh. And PETA can definitely get fucked.

PETA can definitely fuck off - weirdos.

Meat eaters are exactly the same Finners. For the most part, when you say you're vegetarian (pescetarian seems to confuse people) and they look at you like you've four heads and have just said I like to steal newborn babies and throw them from bridges. Then ask "Why? Do you not miss etc etc etc?"

[ozleicester]

I find it hard to believe you cannot see the difference between killing to eat and killing for amusement. Have you never had sympathy with the anti fox hunting brigade?

What about the difference between harvesting crops for food and burning crops through arson?

You can argue that eating meat is inefficient, you can argue it is morally wrong, but you cannot argue it is the same as wanton cruelty because is simply isn't. So I will continue to condemn cruelty while eating meat thank you very much. As I said before, that is not to say meat production is perfect, it needs to improve to keep up with societies current perception on what is humane & acceptable.

I can see the difference... im not sure the cow can.

Unfortunately, i think if you read through a few of the comments in the discussion... you will no doubt see that people are killing for enjoyment/amusement, meat is not essential therefore we are killing it to eat for our enjoyment. Yes there are more evil and painfull ways to kill...but the end result remains the same... a living being is now dead for our pleasure.

I am NOT judging anyones morals... far be it from me to do so. (I myself am a hypocite and have eaten meat products since i decided it was wrong), but...in my eyes, the killing of an animal for my pleasure is cruel.

Re PETA... they have my greatest respect, i dont agree with all they say and do but they are fighting for what they believe and that is in the main, about ending cruelty to animals.

[Webbo]

I generally don't give a toss until people start trying to justify their vegetarianism with ridiculous rhetoric about the fact that meat is actually poison or that we're not natural meat eaters or whatever the fuck else.

We've been doing it for millennia and, newsflash, the human race is still here. It's obviously not that fucking bad for us.

Generally I'm with you. If you don't like meat, don't eat it. If you're too much of a pussy to eat sheep without blubbing about baby lambs, don't eat it. But Christ alive shut up bemoaning everyone else.

Oh. And PETA can definitely get fucked.

It frightens me when I agree with you.

[DB11]

Wait.... so this makes it ok???

Great... i know, why dont we start farming people... in fact, weve already got too many of them..lets just round em up... put a bolt through their heads, tear their skin off and chop em up

Hitler tried that. It didn't go down too well though

[Finnegan]

Meat eaters are exactly the same Finners. For the most part, when you say you're vegetarian (pescetarian seems to confuse people) and they look at you like you've four heads and have just said I like to steal newborn babies and throw them from bridges. Then ask "Why? Do you not miss etc etc etc?"

Certainly there will be nobs on either side, I'm not really suggesting otherwise and not being a vegetarian I'm not going to sit and tell you it's not happening and it isn't annoying.

But I have to say, generally in my experience I've never seen a meat-eater give a vegetarian a self-righteous, hyperbole-ridden lecture about the merits of eating meat and why vegetarianism is wrong and that's the difference for me. You might get meat-eaters giving shit, boring banter about how all vegetarians are pussies or weirdos and no doubt that gets extremely tiresome after the first eight hundred times (I can sympathise, hello sheep jokes!) But at least they're not being damn preachy with it, for the most part!

Oh. And as for being curious and asking why you became a vegetarian, I think that's a reasonably fair question. I'm sure it gets a bit repetitive but at least then it's serving as a conversation starter, for the most part, as opposed to a point of scorn or belittlement. I mean, out of sheer curiosity, I often ask vegetarians what made them decide to stop eating meat (if they ever started) and how long they've been a vegetarian. (And when they're going to grow up)

Edited 20 May 2011 by Sosban Fach

[Zingari]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks it isn't natural for us to eat meat is a grade A plonker.

How else do you think it happened if not "naturally?" It's not like it's a very modern, recent thing and we've suddenly gone "oh right, I wonder what a cow would taste like." Hell, the entire species "cow" wouldn't exist if we hadn't domesticated an animal for centuries for the very purpose of food.

What exactly constitutes unnatural? This is how we have evolved, naturally, to be. Besides, we quite blatantly don't have herbivorous teeth, we have powerful incisors for biting flesh and grinding molars for chewing various foodstuffs; we are archetypal omnivores.

no we don't , we have canine teeth for that

just being picky

[Finnegan]

Whatever, dentist.

[Zingari]

Whatever, dentist.

thank you , my fee for the consultation is £20 including minor corrective surgery

edit

this thread should be retitled , "what grinds my food "

Edited 20 May 2011 by Zingari

[Jon the Hat]

Certainly there will be nobs on either side, I'm not really suggesting otherwise and not being a vegetarian I'm not going to sit and tell you it's not happening and it isn't annoying.

But I have to say, generally in my experience I've never seen a meat-eater give a vegetarian a self-righteous, hyperbole-ridden lecture about the merits of eating meat and why vegetarianism is wrong and that's the difference for me. You might get meat-eaters giving shit, boring banter about how all vegetarians are pussies or weirdos and no doubt that gets extremely tiresome after the first eight hundred times (I can sympathise, hello sheep jokes!) But at least they're not being damn preachy with it, for the most part!

Oh. And as for being curious and asking why you became a vegetarian, I think that's a reasonably fair question. I'm sure it gets a bit repetitive but at least then it's serving as a conversation starter, for the most part, as opposed to a point of scorn or belittlement. I mean, out of sheer curiosity, I often ask vegetarians what made them decide to stop eating meat (if they ever started) and how long they've been a vegetarian. (And when they're going to grow up)

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C. S. Lewis

English essayist & juvenile novelist (1898 - 1963)

[Zingari]

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C. S. Lewis

English essayist & juvenile novelist (1898 - 1963)

that's quite brilliant, and how ironic that he should die on 22nd of november of that year when tyranny ( of whichever kind )was showing it's face yet again.