What grinds my gears...

[Finnegan]

You've answered your second sentence with your first sentence. Every child is different!

I don't really believe that that's true, to be honest.

I think the intelligence and understanding of every parent is different. I think children are, essentially, how you raise them. There isn't a "courteous" DNA strand, I'm afraid that one's definitely nurture - not nature.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Some children need a firmer sort of discipline than others

I’m fairly sure that most kids can be taught very easily without any smacking, but then I’m fairly sure there are a few that really cannot be brought to account by words alone.

I think most parents know the level to which physical punishment should be administered but of course there will be exceptions and they should be severely dealt with.

But to tar every parent who uses some form of physical punishment with violent ones is ridiculous As usual Britain’s guardians of moral conscience will see it as a totally black and white situation

Precisely. Its them who need to open their own eyes to the world! My mum is a playgroup leader (ok it wasn't her giving the smacks out to me) and both parents are bible bashers. Punishing myself and my brohter how they did when they felt necessary does not make them akin to Baby P's 'parents'

[The Year Of The Fox]

I don't really believe that that's true, to be honest.

I think the intelligence and understanding of every parent is different. I think children are, essentially, how you raise them. There isn't a "courteous" DNA strand, I'm afraid that one's definitely nurture - not nature.

Yeh and some kids need to learn whats right and wrong by giving them a smack. Its the only way for some!

I don't buy into this 'it'll affect your childs life once grown up' ( ie becoming violent or whatever) Certainly speaking for myself, I'd rather shake hands with someone than fight anyone, and I definitely had my fair share of smacks

Edited 26 June 2011 by lcfcstu

[Finnegan]

Precisely. Its them who need to open their own eyes to the world! My mum is a playgroup leader (ok it wasn't her giving the smacks out to me) and both parents are bible bashers. Punishing myself and my brohter how they did when they felt necessary does not make them akin to Baby P's 'parents'

Nobody's saying they are.

You might want to pretend that everyone who is opposed to "Physical Punishment" is some overtly political correct do-gooder who sees the slightest slap on the backside as some grotesque form of torture but that's completely spurious. It might make it easier for you to be dismissive or to try and rally support for your argument if you get all emotive and make this some sort of "political correctness" issue or blame the nanny-state and the overly controlling leftist intellectuals, etcetera, etcetera but, again, that's spurious.

There's simply a hell of a lot of people in the world who think the need to beat your child is outdated, backwards and slightly cruel. That is all. And I'm yet to really see anything particularly logical to challenge that.

[The Doctor]

Precisely. Its them who need to open their own eyes to the world! My mum is a playgroup leader (ok it wasn't her giving the smacks out to me) and both parents are bible bashers. Punishing myself and my brohter how they did when they felt necessary does not make them akin to Baby P's 'parents'

has anyone said they were?

Yes, there are people that have turned out fine despite being beaten as discipline when they were a child but likewise, plenty of people who weren't beat as a child are respectful, well round individuals.

Given that beating a child can cause severe psychological damage and there are other options which have been proven to work, why do some people persist with the idea that a child needs to be beaten to learn respect?

[Zingari]

Nobody's saying they are.

You might want to pretend that everyone who is opposed to "Physical Punishment" is some overtly political correct do-gooder who sees the slightest slap on the backside as some grotesque form of torture but that's completely spurious. It might make it easier for you to be dismissive or to try and rally support for your argument if you get all emotive and make this some sort of "political correctness" issue or blame the nanny-state and the overly controlling leftist intellectuals, etcetera, etcetera but, again, that's spurious.

There's simply a hell of a lot of people in the world who think the need to beat your child is outdated, backwards and slightly cruel. That is all. And I'm yet to really see anything particularly logical to challenge that.

much too emotive

[Webbo]

I always knew racism was wrong, because I was told racism was wrong and it was explained to me that racism was wrong.

This is what I hate about the argument; people use the fact that they were beaten as a kid and "weren't harmed by it" as an excuse, as a justification. Surely that's irrelevant? You want to be looking at the people who have come out perfectly fine without actually being hit at all and go "oh, well alright."

Nobody's saying that every child who's ever smacked turns out to be some spawn of Satan, bubbling with pent up rage. But if you can achieve the same level of discipline, care and understanding by NOT smacking your child then surely that's better?

Would any sane, rational human being not - wherever possible - want to take the route in life that does NOT involve violence?

Hitting your kids is always a last resort, you don't think parents enjoy it do you?

If your kids misbehaves you firstly tell them to stop, if they won't you warn them that they will have to sit on the naughty step, or chair or whatever. If they still misbehave you put them on the naughty step. If they won't go on the naughty step or get off without permission, then you warn them that they will get a clout if they don't do as they're told. Only if they still refuse to do as they're told do they get a (non life threatening) smack on the legs,backside or hand.

When your kids know that you're not making idle threats they usually do as they're told by steps 1 or 2.

PS. I pressed +1 on your post by accident instead of the reply button so don't get smug.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Nobody's saying they are.You might want to pretend that everyone who is opposed to "Physical Punishment" is some overtly political correct do-gooder who sees the slightest slap on the backside as some grotesque form of torture but that's completely spurious. It might make it easier for you to be dismissive or to try and rally support for your argument if you get all emotive and make this some sort of "political correctness" issue or blame the nanny-state and the overly controlling leftist intellectuals, etcetera, etcetera but, again, that's spurious.

There's simply a hell of a lot of people in the world who think the need to beat your child is outdated, backwards and slightly cruel. That is all. And I'm yet to really see anything particularly logical to challenge that.

Go back a few pages!

Perhaps if you were to meet people like myself then you'd realise that people who have been hit as a kid aren't scarred for life! I'm sure there are millions who think its outdated etc, but I bet there are just as many who say otherwise- obciously though, they won't speak out on this forum for fear of social bloody services or whatever!

Maybe if there was an anonymous survey done in this country, the results would be a bit closer than perhaps you'd expect!

[The Year Of The Fox]

Hitting your kids is always a last resort, you don't think parents enjoy it do you?

If your kids misbehaves you firstly tell them to stop, if they won't you warn them that they will have to sit on the naughty step, or chair or whatever. If they still misbehave you put them on the naughty step. If they won't go on the naughty step or get off without permission, then you warn them that they will get a clout if they don't do as they're told. Only if they still refuse to do as they're told do they get a (non life threatening ) smack on the legs,backside or hand.

When your kids know that you're not making idle threats they usually do as they're told by steps 1 or 2.

PS. I pressed +1 on your post by accident instead of the reply button so don't get smug.

Exactly. Parents who smack their kids don't do it out of the blue!

As Webbo said, you have to a definitive final punishment that you will go through with once all these other stages have been passed. Theres no point in having idle threats. As with my parents, I soon learned that if I didn't do as I was told then consequences would follow

Edited 26 June 2011 by lcfcstu

[Nick]

Go on then...

Children haven't changed (mentally) Its PC people looking for excuses.

How about dyslexia? To me, and a lot of people I know it just means you're thick. Some "dyslexic" people know admit that as well!

Yep, there we go again - zero knowledge, 'ignorance doesn't begin to cover this' - 'Irony,' in this instance would involve you having the shit kicked out of you by your chemically imbalanced ADHD & dyspraxic children to 'drum some sense' into you, yet you still not learning from the experience - hmmm why would that be?

I really can't waste my Sunday working with this level of ignorance. I may as well spend my time listening to Karl Pilkington - at least that's funny.

I pass the mantle over to anybody with more patience and tolerance for somebody who makes sweeping statement that are 'down right offensive' and clearly has absolutely no knowledge or understanding of any biological, psychological (yes I can spell it) or scientific developments in the last five decades. (which is an achievement in itself, to have managed to have absorbed zero sources of reliable information in their environment on a topic that they have a strong opinion on and still believe that their stagnant arguments are defensible - which must in itself be the definition of 'ignorance')

Seriously, if you are prepared to be this ignorant in public, write a letter to Ricky Gervais - he could make you a millionaire.

[Zingari]

Webbo for mod ,

this place needs more discipline

[Webbo]

Webbo for mod ,

this place needs more discipline

There'd be a few on here sitting on the naughty step, I can tell you.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Yep, there we go again - zero knowledge, 'ignorance doesn't begin to cover this' - 'Irony,' in this instance would involve you having the shit kicked out of you by your chemically imbalanced ADHD & dyspraxic children to 'drum some sense' into you, yet you still not learning from the experience - hmmm why would that be?

I really can't waste my Sunday working with this level of ignorance. I may as well spend my time listening to Karl Pilkington - at least that's funny.

I pass the mantle over to anybody with more patience and tolerance for somebody who makes sweeping statement that are 'down right offensive' and clearly has absolutely no knowledge or understanding of any biological, psychological (yes I can spell it) or scientific developments in the last five decades. (which is an achievement in itself, to have managed to have absorbed zero sources of reliable information in their environment on a topic that they have a strong opinion on and still believe that their stagnant arguments are defensible - which must in itself be the definition of 'ignorance')

Seriously, if you are prepared to be this ignorant in public, write a letter to Ricky Gervais - he could make you a millionaire.

You're probably not dyslexic then

[Guest Mee-9]

Go on then...

Children haven't changed (mentally) Its PC people looking for excuses.

How about dyslexia? To me, and a lot of people I know it just means you're thick. Some "dyslexic" people know admit that as well!

How the complete fuck can you say that.

I've got a friend, she's dyslexic, you wouldn't be able to tell, she just struggles with writing. She's not thick. She's more intelligent than me, and she's miles more intelligent than your ignorant views, and she's half your age I bet.

Tit.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Hmm, how do you know she's more intelligent, just based on my views? Thats a silly thing to say!

My old boss can't tell the time, nor read, but he could easily put a 'y' plan plumbing system in for an unvented cylinder. Still thick though

[Wymsey]

How about dyslexia? To me, and a lot of people I know it just means you're thick. Some "dyslexic" people know admit that as well!

So.................you are calling famous people like Richard Branson and Steve Jobs thick just because they're dyslexic? Grow a pair.

Edited 26 June 2011 by Wymeswold fox

[The Year Of The Fox]

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

[Ford Super Sunday]

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

Either you're joking or that is the most astonishing, ignorant and retarded post in FoxesTalk history.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I'm not trying to be controversial or piss people off, I genuinely think we swallow too much of what they dish out. A bit like global warming.

[ajthefox]

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

Who's steve jobs?

I'm saying that there's no such thing as dyslexia, its just that person isn't as bright as someone else!

Is it that hard to understand? The government just make names and labels for everything and everyone!

I agree that there is seemingly a name for everything these days but dyslexia isn't even related to intelligence and I strongly suggest you do some reading because you are gravely mistaken.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I know its not directly related as such. Dyslexia is, from what I know for example, someone who struggles to read, or perhaps gets letters mixed up when spelling, ie, their becomes thier. But to me that just means you're a poor speller or reader, perhaps someone who never bothered to read as a kid (as reading is proven to help spelling)

I've seen examples of dyslexia. When my missis writes she comes across as thick or dyslexic. I've had her about it loads of times, and she openly admits that when she writes she's just being lazy. Perhaps if kids took more care when writing and spelling there would be fewer people being called dyslexic?!

[Unit]

I know its not directly related as such. Dyslexia is, from what I know for example, someone who struggles to read, or perhaps gets letters mixed up when spelling, ie, their becomes thier. But to me that just means you're a poor speller or reader, perhaps someone who never bothered to read as a kid (as reading is proven to help spelling)

I've seen examples of dyslexia. When my missis writes she comes across as thick or dyslexic. I've had her about it loads of times, and she openly admits that when she writes she's just being lazy. Perhaps if kids took more care when writing and spelling there would be fewer people being called dyslexic?!

:frusty:

[Finnegan]

You're sort of embarrassing yourself now. There was some validity in your complaint about ADHD, it is over-diagnosed and there is genuine debate over it's status as a mental illness (and even more so how it should be medicated.)

Dyslexia is a recognized learning disability that affects far more than just a person's ability to spell. Go and do some research before actually making yourself look ignorant.

I know a number of people with good mathematical, musical and scientific understanding who struggle to decode language as a result of dyslexia or have a poorer working memory than I do because of it. They are by no means 'thick', on any level. In fact, the most common way dyslexia is recognized in adults is that their reading and writing age DOESN'T match up to their general intelligence.

So you may know people who can't read or write for shit and they may be completely thick, but whether or not they have dyslexia is an unconnected issue.

Edited 26 June 2011 by Finnegan

[Libertine]

[Finnegan]

Oh, and on ADHD, something Kareem posted a while ago has a great little bit about three or four minutes in that's worth a look.