What grinds my gears...

[21st Century Fox]

I don't have a problem with eating meat, I was a vegetarian for about a decade when I was younger having watched a particularly disturbing episode of John Craven's Newsround I do have a massive problem with the mechanised, conveyor belt way we now produce meat products and the amount that gets wasted.

Every city should have it's own designated field filled with livestock, poultry, mud and shit, anyone who fancies a steak or a bacon sandwich, pays to hire a club or bow and then has to chase down their choice of meat. I can't imagine many people would be inclined to waste it, having taken the time to bludgeon their own dinner.

Edited 9 July 2012 by 21st Century Fox

[Finnegan]

Like I said, I appreciate ethics have gone to **** when it comes to meat and I understand anyone who has a problem with the standards we,keep livestock in nowadays.

But for as,long as there is evidence of mankind in history there is evidence of us eating and hunting meat.

[FoxyPV]

Like I said, I appreciate ethics have gone to **** when it comes to meat and I understand anyone who has a problem with the standards we,keep livestock in nowadays.

But for as,long as there is evidence of mankind in history there is evidence of us eating and hunting meat.

You love eating my meat.

[Raw Dykes]

Agreed but as devil's advocate, the human race were originally herbivores and evolved to be omnivores.

Lions, tigers, hyenas etc have always been predominantly carnivores

Well, maybe, but we may not have survived as a species had we stayed herbivores. There may well have been a very good reason that our diet had to change. We were eating meat way before we were worrying about the ethics involved.

Cats have always been carnivores since they've been cats, but we do all share an ancestor.

Going back to PETA again, I don't think they care about animals so much as they hate humans.

[The Doctor]

I don't have a problem with eating meat, I was a vegetarian for about a decade when I was younger having watched a particularly disturbing episode of John Craven's Newsround I do have a massive problem with the mechanised, conveyor belt way we now produce meat products and the amount that gets wasted.

Every city should have it's own designated field filled with livestock, poultry, mud and shit, anyone who fancies a steak or a bacon sandwich, pays to hire a club or bow and then has to chase down their choice of meat. I can't imagine many people would be inclined to waste it, having taken the time to bludgeon their own dinner.

I like the sound of that - bows or guns, eat what you kill. Phenomenal restaurant idea.

[ADK]

Before mass production only the rich could afford meat in their diet. Mass farming has also allowed us to reduce the risk of getting a disease from eating meat. If you ate a non-domesticated animal you are at much greater risk of catching a disease.

[Parafox]

Before mass production only the rich could afford meat in their diet. Mass farming has also allowed us to reduce the risk of getting a disease from eating meat. If you ate a non-domesticated animal you are at much greater risk of catching a disease.

Are beef cattle domesticated then?

Sorry, splitting hairs

[Raw Dykes]

Before mass production only the rich could afford meat in their diet. Mass farming has also allowed us to reduce the risk of getting a disease from eating meat. If you ate a non-domesticated animal you are at much greater risk of catching a disease.

We were eating meat way before money was invented. No rich people, no poor people, no vegetarians - just humans, all eating animals.

[Daggers]

Before mass production only the rich could afford meat in their diet. Mass farming has also allowed us to reduce the risk of getting a disease from eating meat. If you ate a non-domesticated animal you are at much greater risk of catching a disease.

I would be genuinely interested to see supporting evidence for this.

[sphericalfox]

I would be genuinely interested to see supporting evidence for this.

I once went down on a badger and got TB of the gums.

[Daggers]

I once went down on a badger and got TB of the gums.

Well I've been having a fling with this female for ages now and not caught a thing.

Mind you, she is a bit of a moose.

[sphericalfox]

Well I've been having a fling with this female for ages now and not caught a thing.

Mind you, she is a bit of a moose.

Not even halitosis?

[ADK]

I would be genuinely interested to see supporting evidence for this.

I can't find any at the moment.

Edited 9 July 2012 by ADK

[ozleicester]

Anyone who thinks it's inherently, morally wrong to eat meat or wear leather (etc) grinds my gears. There are lots of good reasons for vegetarianism and if that's your life choice then so be it. I also accept that the way we keep and kill livestock can sometimes be cruel and we could do more to minimize their suffering.

But anyone who simply has a problem with our predator-prey relationship with the animal kingdom we ARE a part of? **** right off and grow up.

Lions eat meat, tigers eat meat, humans eat meat. Deal with it.

Lions and tigers and bears oh my. In future I shall be sure to base all lifestyle choices on what lions and tigers do, they are clearly the intellectual leaders of this planet.

I think people that don't like the taste of vAg are mad, I think it's delicious

Fixed

Like I said, I appreciate ethics have gone to **** when it comes to meat and I understand anyone who has a problem with the standards we,keep livestock in nowadays.

But for as,long as there is evidence of mankind in history there is evidence of us eating and hunting meat.

We used to live in caves.. just because we did it in the past, does not mean we should continue to do it. The concept of "weve always done it..therefore we always should"... is one of the stupidest comments anyone can make.

Well, maybe, but we may not have survived as a species had we stayed herbivores. There may well have been a very good reason that our diet had to change. We were eating meat way before we were worrying about the ethics involved.

Cats have always been carnivores since they've been cats, but we do all share an ancestor.

Going back to PETA again, I don't think they care about animals so much as they hate humans.

There were reasons for us beginning to eat meat...but they no longer exist and we only eat it now, coz we can.

PETA are most certainly extreme but, they have a basic belief that animals have an equal right to live that we do.. they would no more kill an animal, than a human.

[Finnegan]

We used to live in caves.. just because we did it in the past, does not mean we should continue to do it. The concept of "weve always done it..therefore we always should"... is one of the stupidest comments anyone can make.

Not in the given context, no.

We used to burn alleged witches and enslave those of a different skin tone, too, but we matured as a species.

Our relationship with our fellow animals is somewhat different, it's not a matter of prejudice or small mindedness, it's simply our part in nature.

Mass agricultural farmland and a vegetable diet has destroyed countless ecosystems and species of creature on this planet and even if we all resorted to foraging, the impact on local food-chains would be devastating to the balance of things given the supply needed to sustain us.

So get off your high horse, animals must die so that we can survive, either way. The same as every carnivorous and omnivorous creature on the planet.

Edited 10 July 2012 by Finnegan

[FrankieADZ]

People who ask your advice but still don't take any notice of it.

[ozleicester]

Not in the given context, no.

We used to burn alleged witches and enslave those of a different skin tone, too, but we matured as a species.

Our relationship with our fellow animals is somewhat different, it's not a matter of prejudice or small mindedness, it's simply our part in nature.

Mass agricultural farmland and a vegetable diet has destroyed countless ecosystems and species of creature on this planet and even if we all resorted to foraging, the impact on local food-chains would be devastating to the balance of things given the supply needed to sustain us.

So get off your high horse, animals must die so that we can survive, either way. The same as every carnivorous and omnivorous creature on the planet.

You are simply wrong, im not on a high horse or standing in judgement of you as a person...your statements are irrational and wrong.

Animals do not need to die for us to survive, you know this to be true even if you choose to deny it.

You example the burning of witches and slavery and say we have matured... but then cannot see that same maturation is required in respect to animals.

I've met some people, who, to this day will tell you that people of other races are lower on the food chain than they are and its reasonable for them to be treated as such... as its simply part of nature.

In terms of damage to the environment, the raising of livestock is one of the major causes of CO2 emissions and if we were to reduce meat production we would see an immediate and significant change to the environment for the better... and again re the positive effects of growing more vegetables etc, is so incredibly easy to see the positives that i can only assume you are either on the wind up.. or amazingly stupid.

Quote from Time

"The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) concluded that worldwide livestock farming generates 18% of the planet's greenhouse gas emissions — by comparison, all the world's cars, trains, planes and boats account for a combined 13% of greenhouse gas emissions"

Read more:

http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz20CDqClSQ

im assuming from this point on that you are just trying a wind up as your statements are contradictory and plainly stupid.

edit - leaving the discussion of this to another thread..as this is for what grinds gears

Edited 10 July 2012 by ozleicester

[Captain...]

You are simply wrong, im not on a high horse or standing in judgement of you as a person...your statements are irrational and wrong.

Animals do not need to die for us to survive, you know this to be true even if you choose to deny it.

Quote from Time

"The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) concluded that worldwide livestock farming generates 18% of the planet's greenhouse gas emissions — by comparison, all the world's cars, trains, planes and boats account for a combined 13% of greenhouse gas emissions"

It is a slightly contradictory argument, if we stopped eating meat/animal products there would need to be a mass cull of all farm animals, whilst they do contribute to green house gasses and also result in the wide scale destruction of natural land and habitats to make space for them all, they are also killed and their breeding controlled. Especially cows If left to nature their environmental impact would be much bigger and having no predators or controlled breeding would result in the populations increasing exponentially. We would also need to convert that land to vegetable and soya growth.

So do your strong views on vegetarianism extend to a mass cull to facilitate the conversion to a meat free world?

Edited 10 July 2012 by Captain Shrapnel

[Big Dave]

It is also amazing how many vegetarians wear leather shoes, and have leather handbags, purses, sofas etc. Double standards?

[Raw Dykes]

It is a slightly contradictory argument, if we stopped eating meat/animal products there would need to be a mass cull of all farm animals, whilst they do contribute to green house gasses and also result in the wide scale destruction of natural land and habitats to make space for them all, they are also killed and their breeding controlled. Especially cows If left to nature their environmental impact would be much bigger and having no predators or controlled breeding would result in the populations increasing exponentially. We would also need to convert that land to vegetable and soya growth.

So do your strong views on vegetarianism extend to a mass cull to facilitate the conversion to a meat free world?

Exactly. I was about to write something similar.

It goes further than that. A meat-free world would mean keeping only a miniscule fraction of the numbers of cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc. we currently have, so it wouldn't only mean a mass cull now, it would also mean a cull for as long as we stay meat-free.

Making a decision like this doesn't just wipe out most of the animals we eat today, but all future generations of those animals. You might say it's pointless to worry about animals that may never be born, but as things stand, the number of future animals born is vastly greater than the number would be if we ended the meat industry. Do you really want to deny all those countless baby cows, pigs and chickens their lives?

Who's really got the animals' best interests at heart, here?

[Big Dave]

It is a slightly contradictory argument, if we stopped eating meat/animal products there would need to be a mass cull of all farm animals, whilst they do contribute to green house gasses and also result in the wide scale destruction of natural land and habitats to make space for them all, they are also killed and their breeding controlled. Especially cows If left to nature their environmental impact would be much bigger and having no predators or controlled breeding would result in the populations increasing exponentially. We would also need to convert that land to vegetable and soya growth.

So do your strong views on vegetarianism extend to a mass cull to facilitate the conversion to a meat free world?

If we did not eat animals, there would be no need for cows and pigs (sheep for wool maybe). Farmers would not look after them for the love of their animals if they no longer had a value. They would all go.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Not in the given context, no.

We used to burn alleged witches and enslave those of a different skin tone, too, but we matured as a species.

Our relationship with our fellow animals is somewhat different, it's not a matter of prejudice or small mindedness, it's simply our part in nature.

Mass agricultural farmland and a vegetable diet has destroyed countless ecosystems and species of creature on this planet and even if we all resorted to foraging, the impact on local food-chains would be devastating to the balance of things given the supply needed to sustain us.

So get off your high horse, animals must die so that we can survive, either way. The same as every carnivorous and omnivorous creature on the planet.

And that's why you were thrown off the Morrissey tour.

It's a shame, I thought your accordion skills really added something

[lavrentis]

Strong arguments for both sides, doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. If I had enough will power I'd probably go vegetarian so I respect them for that as meat is just too ****ing delicious.

[Rincewind]

If we did not eat animals, there would be no need for cows and pigs (sheep for wool maybe). Farmers would not look after them for the love of their animals if they no longer had a value. They would all go.

This is what I always thought. By eating them we are keeping the species from going extinct. I'm doing my bit for the animal kingdom.

[FoxyPV]

It is also amazing how many vegetarians wear leather shoes, and have leather handbags, purses, sofas etc. Double standards?

You're thinking of vegans.

I have no problem with people eating meat, I'm just not prepareed to do it myself.

I do have a problem with the amount of hormones that are pumped into animals to make them fatter and the industrial manner in which animals are slaughtered but c'est la vie.