What grinds my gears...

[Soar Fox]

Fair enough Cappy, that's a fair response.

Mc if you think the High Cross is bad you want to have diarrhoea in the Market Tavern.

I'm going in the Tavern tomorrow night. I'll stay clear of the cubicles.

[shade]

I think your lifestyle is brilliant? On the contrary, I think it's deplorable.

You brag about all and sundry, the entire opposite of what a person who's likely to want to generate and look after someone/something other than themselves. Hence the thought of you having children amuses me.

spherical, don't worry about it, sociopathic right wing braggarts are never self aware enough to realise what they really are.

[Zingari]

I've seen some quite attractive trans people, you just don't necessarily notice them when they aren't so obvious.

yes i've had a couple of near misses in my time 

[purpleronnie]

yes i've had a couple of near misses in my time 

Send them over I'm desperate.

[Zingari]

Send them over I'm desperate.

 hopefully not that desperate !

[purpleronnie]

 hopefully not that desperate !

I'm getting close zingy.

[Zingari]

I'm getting close zingy.

thanks ronnie ,  but i'm neither that way inclined nor easily mistaken for a ladyboy 

[purpleronnie]

thanks ronnie ,  but i'm neither that way inclined nor easily mistaken for a ladyboy 

Oh well, at least I tried.

[Rincewind]

yes i've had a couple of near misses in my time 

have you ever done the Crocodile Dundee test Zing?

[maynefox]

Billy Davies.

[Zingari]

Oh well, at least I tried.

i'd be lying if i said  i wasn't a flattered 

have you ever done the Crocodile Dundee test Zing?

no thats too up front for me ,  , someone told me to have a good look at the feet and hands first if i was in any doubt 

[Filbert_Ross]

People who throw in a h when writing Atlético Madrid.

[Dan LCFC]

People who throw in a h when writing Atlético Madrid.

 

Can't rep this enough.

[Guest MattP]

Harriet Harman.

What kind of a person wants to ban page 3 but wants to decriminalise child porn?

 

(edited)

Edited 25 February 2014 by MattP

[Jon the Hat]

Harriet Harman.

What kind of a person wants to ban page 3 but decriminalised child porn?

 

Storm in a Daily Mail tea cup.  Although god knows what they were thinking letting this PIR mob affiliate.  Left wing stupidity I suppose.

[Captain...]

Harriet Harman.

What kind of a person wants to ban page 3 but decriminalised child porn?

 

When was child porn decriminalised?

 

I've heard about the Daily Mail smear campaign on Harman, only read bits of it, if you can show me any evidence that Harman herself actively supported PIE and lobbied on their behalf over their extreme ideas, then you may have a point, but saying she is a Paedo sympathiser because she was part of a human rights group that PIE paid to be an affiliate of, is the same as saying Farage is a facist because UKIP is affiliated with far right groups in making up the EFP.

[Jon the Hat]

When was child porn decriminalised?

 

I've heard about the Daily Mail smear campaign on Harman, only read bits of it, if you can show me any evidence that Harman herself actively supported PIE and lobbied on their behalf over their extreme ideas, then you may have a point, but saying she is a Paedo sympathiser because she was part of a human rights group that PIE paid to be an affiliate of, is the same as saying Farage is a facist because UKIP is affiliated with far right groups in making up the EFP.

 

More like saying Farage is a racist if UKIP proposed racist policies I would suggest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

Affiliation to the NCCL

By 1978, PIE and Paedophile Action for Liberation had become affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties, now known as Liberty, with members attending meetings. The organisation campaigned against newspapers' treatment of the Paedophile activist groups. Whilst affiliated with NCCL, PIE also campaigned to reduce the age of consent and oppose the proposed banning of child pornography. In 1976, in a submission to the Criminal Law Revision Committee, the NCCL asserted that “childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage†and that the Protection of Children Bill would lead to “damaging and absurd prosecutionsâ€. Whilst PIE was affiliated with it, the organisation argued for incest to be decriminalised and argued that sexually explicit photographs of children should be legal unless it could be proven that the subject had suffered harm or that the an inference to that effect or to the effect that harm might have been caused could reasonably be drawn from the images themselves, stating “Although this harm may be of a somewhat speculative nature, where participation falls short of physical assault, it is none-the-less justifiable to restrain activities by photographer which involve placing children under the age of 14 (or, arguably, 16) in sexual situations.^[3] NCCL had excluded PIE by 1983.^[4]

[The Doctor]

Trying to search for a paper for my dissertation (the original report for the miller-urey experiment) and not being able to find it because of all the creatard woo from psuedoscientifical institutes that appears.

Oh, and shoe shops. Why do they not stock for the properly sized person? Fed up asking if they have these in my size (12) and being told that they only stock up to an 11.

[Captain...]

More like saying Farage is a racist if UKIP proposed racist policies I would suggest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

Affiliation to the NCCL

By 1978, PIE and Paedophile Action for Liberation had become affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties, now known as Liberty, with members attending meetings. The organisation campaigned against newspapers' treatment of the Paedophile activist groups. Whilst affiliated with NCCL, PIE also campaigned to reduce the age of consent and oppose the proposed banning of child pornography. In 1976, in a submission to the Criminal Law Revision Committee, the NCCL asserted that “childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage†and that the Protection of Children Bill would lead to “damaging and absurd prosecutionsâ€. Whilst PIE was affiliated with it, the organisation argued for incest to be decriminalised and argued that sexually explicit photographs of children should be legal unless it could be proven that the subject had suffered harm or that the an inference to that effect or to the effect that harm might have been caused could reasonably be drawn from the images themselves, stating “Although this harm may be of a somewhat speculative nature, where participation falls short of physical assault, it is none-the-less justifiable to restrain activities by photographer which involve placing children under the age of 14 (or, arguably, 16) in sexual situations.^[3] NCCL had excluded PIE by 1983.^[4]

 

You are right it is different:

 

 

Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."

Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord. MEP Nikki Sinclaire, however, was expelled from Ukip for refusing to take part in the EFD because of their “extreme viewsâ€.

 

 

Harman was just the legal secretary of the NCCL, Farage co-presides over people with these deplorable views. My point is she is being accused as being guilty by association, there is nothing that has linked her directly to supporting or campaigning for PIE, when she was part of the NCCL which campaigned on many other things, see the response to this accusation by one of her co smeared:

 

 

A statement released by Mr Dromey said: "Sexual abuse of children is evil and I have always viewed paedophiles and any group associated with them as evil.

"During my time on the NCCL Executive, I was at the forefront of repeated public condemnations of PIE and their despicable views. Then, when I was elected chairman, I took them on.

"I personally chaired the NCCL conference that, on my recommendation, refused to back by a massive majority a loathsome motion from a leading light in PIE calling on NCCL to support the so-called 'rights' of paedophiles. Indeed, my stand was denounced in a leaflet distributed by PIE to the delegates to the Conference.

"Like many organisations in the 1970s, NCCL had been infiltrated but that was the moment the tide was turned. I closed the conference saying that we had to stand up for the rights of children not to be sexually abused and that adults guilty of abuse were the lowest of the low.

"I was then the first to argue that paedophiles could have no place in NCCL.

"As a lifelong opponent of evil men who abuse children, the accusations of the Daily Mail are untrue and beneath contempt."

 

[Jon the Hat]

You are right it is different:

 

 

Harman was just the legal secretary of the NCCL, Farage co-presides over people with these deplorable views. My point is she is being accused as being guilty by association, there is nothing that has linked her directly to supporting or campaigning for PIE, when she was part of the NCCL which campaigned on many other things, see the response to this accusation by one of her co smeared:

 

You misread the Wiki story - this refers to NCCL  not PIE:

the organisation argued for incest to be decriminalised and argued that sexually explicit photographs of children should be legal unless it could be proven that the subject had suffered harm

 

Sounds dodgy to me.

Edited 25 February 2014 by Jon the Hat

[Jon the Hat]

Also, is this right she knew they were affiliated when she joined NCCL?  And she has not apologised.  HH is toast.

[Alf Bentley]

Harriet Harman.

What kind of a person wants to ban page 3 but decriminalised child porn?

 

Storm in a Daily Mail tea cup.  Although god knows what they were thinking letting this PIR mob affiliate.  Left wing stupidity I suppose.

 

I'm assuming that Matt has done a typo there and meant that HH "wants to decriminalise child porn" (itself untrue). Matt, if you are claiming that HH "decriminalised child porn", a source/link would be appreciated. HH wasn't even in parliament at the time. The truth seems to be more that her employer in the 1970s accepted a paid affiliation from a paedophile campaign group (among countless other individuals and groups) and HH didn't pay it any attention. 

 

I saw HH on Newsnight last night and wasn't impressed. Why didn't she just say: "I had nothing to do with this paedophile group personally and this was in a different era, when there was little awareness of child abuse (think Saville, paedophile priests, care homes - all scandals that have arisen since)....however, with hindsight and although I never supported them, the NCCL shouldn't have accepted that affiliation. Sorry for that mistake"? By not doing so, she's just guaranteed that the Mail smear will run and run.

 

However, did the Mail mention this bloke, a PIE leader: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hayman_(diplomat)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

He held various prestigious jobs in the 1960s, was knighted and appointed High Commissioner to Canada by Ted Heath's Tory government and then Thatcher's Tory Attorney-General declined to prosecute him after he was exposed by Private Eye for sending child porn through the post and the issue was raised in parliament by a Tory backbencher. He was subsequently jailed for paedophile activities, according to the Wiki piece.

 

Something makes me think (a) that the Mail won't mention that; and (b) that Cameron won't be wading too deeply into this mud-slinging, as a whole lot of the mud might end up on his own party! 

 

More seriously, I find this a depressing forerunner of what the general election will be like: can you imagine all those scummy little rats at the Mail (a paper with its own dirty secrets from the 1930s) out there now, burrowing around for dirt on Miliband & co. Did he once sit next to a lad at school who became a paedophile? Did he once have a drink with a bloke who took drugs? Bingo! "Ed's drug-fueled child porn binges"!

 

Of course, anyone guilty of crime or hypocrisy deserves to be exposed, but politics should be about ideas and credibility, not smears and mud-slinging.

[Captain...]

You misread the Wiki story - this refers to NCCL  not PIE:

the organisation argued for incest to be decriminalised and argued that sexually explicit photographs of children should be legal unless it could be proven that the subject had suffered harm

 

Sounds dodgy to me.

 

I don't really see what incest has to do with peadophilia, but the stuff about the photos is dodgy, but I didn't misread the wiki story, just because the NCCL lobbied for these things doesn't mean HH directly lobbied for these things, nor does it mean she is in agreement with it. I would imagine the NCCL lobbied on many things, and not everyone agreed with all of them, so unless she was directly campaigning and lobbying for peado rights I don't see she has done anything wrong. Her lack of adequate response could mean she was more closely linked to that side of the NCCL than Dromey, who has defended himself and showed how he operated in the NCCL and when he had the chance spoke out against their affiliation with PIE. But there isn't any concrete evidence, yet, for Matt to start stating she "decriminalised child porn."

[surrifox]

Storm in a Daily Mail tea cup.  Although god knows what they were thinking letting this PIR mob affiliate.  Left wing stupidity I suppose.

stupidity, intellectual arrogance , a do as I say not as I do mentality - harperson?  surely not

[Guest MattP]

Storm in a Daily Mail tea cup.  Although god knows what they were thinking letting this PIR mob affiliate.  Left wing stupidity I suppose.

PIE took a lot of abuse from the NF so I imagine they would have got themselves under the left wing umbrella purely on that, they still to it to this day with the UAF etc obsession with supporting racist and militant Islamists (MDL + they let one of Lee Rigbys killers speak at their events) when contronted by white racists.

 

When was child porn decriminalised?

 

I've heard about the Daily Mail smear campaign on Harman, only read bits of it, if you can show me any evidence that Harman herself actively supported PIE and lobbied on their behalf over their extreme ideas, then you may have a point, but saying she is a Paedo sympathiser because she was part of a human rights group that PIE paid to be an affiliate of, is the same as saying Farage is a facist because UKIP is affiliated with far right groups in making up the EFP.

 

Typo!!

 

Smear campaign? Come on, nothing they have printed isn't fact, I don't like these words (same as political football) that politicians now trot out when they want to avoid talking about something or trying to defend something they have done, Sami Cahkrabarti had no problem offering a forthright apology for the group being linked and so should Harman, it was on her watch, it happened, it shouldn;t be swept under the carpet. Peadophile Information Exchange, FFS. No wonder they werent fit to govern when they don;t spot that as an affililaite organisation for 5 years plus.

 

On the phone now but you can find it easily, just google Harman letter PIE whatever and you'll see the signed letter lobbying parliament for leniency on child porn.

 

Other than that I can't go through another debate with you on this/under age sex as the last one made me feel ill and I just can't do that again.

 

 

I'm assuming that Matt has done a typo there and meant that HH "wants to decriminalise child porn" (itself untrue). Matt, if you are claiming that HH "decriminalised child porn", a source/link would be appreciated. HH wasn't even in parliament at the time. The truth seems to be more that her employer in the 1970s accepted a paid affiliation from a paedophile campaign group (among countless other individuals and groups) and HH didn't pay it any attention. 

 

I saw HH on Newsnight last night and wasn't impressed. Why didn't she just say: "I had nothing to do with this paedophile group personally and this was in a different era, when there was little awareness of child abuse (think Saville, paedophile priests, care homes - all scandals that have arisen since)....however, with hindsight and although I never supported them, the NCCL shouldn't have accepted that affiliation. Sorry for that mistake"? By not doing so, she's just guaranteed that the Mail smear will run and run.

 

However, did the Mail mention this bloke, a PIE leader: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hayman_(diplomat)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

He held various prestigious jobs in the 1960s, was knighted and appointed High Commissioner to Canada by Ted Heath's Tory government and then Thatcher's Tory Attorney-General declined to prosecute him after he was exposed by Private Eye for sending child porn through the post and the issue was raised in parliament by a Tory backbencher. He was subsequently jailed for paedophile activities, according to the Wiki piece.

 

Something makes me think (a) that the Mail won't mention that; and (b) that Cameron won't be wading too deeply into this mud-slinging, as a whole lot of the mud might end up on his own party! 

 

More seriously, I find this a depressing forerunner of what the general election will be like: can you imagine all those scummy little rats at the Mail (a paper with its own dirty secrets from the 1930s) out there now, burrowing around for dirt on Miliband & co. Did he once sit next to a lad at school who became a paedophile? Did he once have a drink with a bloke who took drugs? Bingo! "Ed's drug-fueled child porn binges"!

 

Of course, anyone guilty of crime or hypocrisy deserves to be exposed, but politics should be about ideas and credibility, not smears and mud-slinging.

 

Yes it was a typo, I disagree she didn't want to decriminalise it though, lobbying and signing a letter stating that judges should be more lenient for me and stating that indecent images of childen where they haven't been harmed for me is doing just that, if you disagree fine but thats a matter of opinion.

 

That link is dreadful but no one in government now is responsible for that, Thatcher also wanted Jimmy knighted remember? But fact is this is the current deputy of the Labour party so it is far more newsworthy that something dragged up from a politician in the 70's (not that Labour could claim any moral highground on that anyway)

 

It will be very dirty, from all sides, CPF talks about smears but if you think the Mail are bad to Labour just pick up a Daily Mirror any day of the week, just as bad if not worse and a paper like that still has a lot of influence in the North.

 

Just watching the news and she is one step closer to an apology, she regrets it now, imagine we'll get something at some point tomorrow.

 

One other thing, if this was a Caroline Flint or an Andy Burnham the press wouldnt be half as bad, it's because its Harperson people will take the ball and run, she's one of the biggest hypocrites British politics has ever seen, she shouts about closing private schools then sends her own children to one, she rants on about all women shortlists then drops her campaign when her husband wants a seat in parliament, she moans about the class system then uses her family ie (Countess of Longford or Lady Fraser) to make sure she is photopgraphed at numerous elite events to flash off the champagne socialist fraternity.

Edited 25 February 2014 by MattP