What grinds my gears...

[The People's Hero]

Don't really want to get involved in this particular debate, but this sort of comment from parents, alluding to their superiority to non-parents, really grinds my gears. 

 

What bearing does someone having children or not have on the debate or people's insight into it? 

 

Your suggestion appears to go even further - that someone would be more likely to hold abhorrent views because they don't have kids.  Can't childless people also have a view, or care about what happens to children, too?

 

Some of the vilest beasts of the lot are parents.  In fact many of them prey on their own relatives.

 

Just because you blew your custard up a lass without protection, doesn't necessarily make you philosophically more insightful, you know...

 

 

Perhaps once (if) you get the chance to 'blow your custard up a lass without protection' and perhaps becoming pregnant (assuming that you're not as impotent as your own argument), you'll understand.

[The People's Hero]

 

"  I said we should  screw the MINERS  you twat !!

 

Superb!

[Alf Bentley]

 According to "today's birthdays" your 98 today.

 

Am I, though? I was born on 29th February 1916, so that makes me about 24, doesn't it?

 

I may have been "a little economical with the actualité" as Alan Clark MP once said. An appropriate person to quote here, as he married a 16-year-old when he was in his thirties, didn't he?

[Vacamion]

Yes childless people can have a view, can you direct me to where I said they couldn't. When you become a parent many of your veiwpoints change, especially those of which concern children, hence the comment.

Whether you like it or not, parents are more likely to speak up for the protection of children.

The fact that out of the discussion taken place, the point you wish to highlight is this, gives me an insight into your position on child abuse.

My position on child abuse?

You are a disgrace for insinuating like that.

Did you not see me qualify at the start of my post that I wasnt going to enter the debate but I resented the implication in your post.

Way to prove my point.

[The People's Hero]

Am I, though? I was born on 29th February 1916, so that makes me about 24, doesn't it?

 

I may have been "a little economical with the actualité" as Alan Clark MP once said. An appropriate person to quote here, as he married a 16-year-old when he was in his thirties, didn't he?

 

Yes, he did, and I believe (shockingly) the marriage lasted.

 

He's generally not a man to hold up as a positive example, I tend to find.

[The People's Hero]

My position on child abuse?

You are a disgrace for insinuating like that.

Did you not see me qualify at the start of my post that I wasnt going to enter the debate but I resented the implication in your post.

Way to prove my point.

 

He's right though, you know.

 

He's spot on. 

 

No one has proved your point, and your qualification that you'll effectively have your say but not enter a debate doesn't make any sense and suggests to me that you're not willing to defend your own argument.

 

Way to prove his point.

[Vacamion]

He's right though, you know.

He's spot on.

No one has proved your point, and your qualification that you'll effectively have your say but not enter a debate doesn't make any sense and suggests to me that you're not willing to defend your own argument.

Way to prove his point.

So.

Because I'm not a parent, I have to explain that paedophilia is bad, rather than it being self evident?

Unbelieveable.

He proved my point by making assumptions about my views, and then outrageously insinuating that I am somehow in favour of paedos, just because I haven't bred.

So. Not spot on, then.

[The People's Hero]

He didn't insinuate that at all. I think you're being very defensive.

 

He suggested, understandably and correctly, in my opinion, that having children yourself makes you think differently on certain subjects.

 

Just as, say, you may be more interested in, and concerned about, for example, an increase on road tax or whatever its official name is, or the price of fuel, if you own a motor vehicle than if you do not.

 

Christ, I forget myself, there I go with sensible assumptions again!

[Beliall]

People without children cannot relate to those who do. End of.

[Strokes]

So.

Because I'm not a parent, I have to explain that paedophilia is bad, rather than it being self evident?

Unbelieveable.

He proved my point by making assumptions about my views, and then outrageously insinuating that I am somehow in favour of paedos, just because I haven't bred.

So. Not spot on, then.

My insinuations were regarding your snobby priorities, a parent wouldnt have stepped over a debate on paedophilia to score petty points, thus proving you incorrect.

If you were a parent we wouldnt be having this debate as you would have agreed in the first instance.

[Vacamion]

TPH and Strokes,

 

I didn't want to start a fight - I know that I cannot fully understand the love you have for your own kids or the feeling you have being parents.  

 

What I meant was that I didn't want to get involved in the whole "is it a vicious smear campaign or was Labour/NCCL stuffed full of beasts" debate. I didn't think that there was a debate about whether peados are bad or not... as I say, I thought that would be self evident .

 

I just don't like the insinuation that the childless are somehow morally inferior or more prone to support paedos *because* they are not parents, rather than there being different levels of morality or different views on life which are conditioned by a whole load of other stuff that doesn't spring from whether "the custard hit the spot"...

 

I'm sure you remember a time before you had kids when you still hated Paedos and would rather die than cause any hurt to innocent kids?   Do you not grant, even from your position as parents, that those who haven't had kids can still feel like that?

 

Anyway, carry on.  And enjoy Fathers Day when it comes.

Edited 28 February 2014 by Vacamion

[The People's Hero]

I can barely remember yesterday mate! But fair point & the point is taken. I just thought you'd been a little defensive, but I probably shouldn't have got involved anyway.

Edited 28 February 2014 by The People's Hero

[ADK]

I don't really find 14-15 year olds having sex disgusting. Fair enough if people do, but it's not really unnatural in any way and perfectly acceptable in some countries. I don't think CPF's friend is disgusting though I wonder how they met?

 

It's only disgusting when it includes psychological manipulation or abuse and that can happen at any age but young people are massively more vulnerable to it.

 

I wonder what would be the effect of lowering the age of consent to say 14? Would it cause societal collapse as hoards of horny old men hung around school at leaving time? Or would it actually change relatively little? (Personally I'm not particularly comfortable with people having relationships with much older people until about 18-21).

 

I'd actually like to know the opinion of women more than the opinion of men. It's often men who go on about paedophiles and there's a bit of an inequality in their thought often that it is wrong for girls to have sex with older men but they would have less of an issue with a boy having sex with an older women.

[Strokes]

TPH and Strokes,

I didn't want to start a fight - I know that I cannot fully understand the love you have for your own kids or the feeling you have being parents.

What I meant was that I didn't want to get involved in the whole "is it a vicious smear campaign or was Labour/NCCL stuffed full of beasts" debate. I didn't think that there was a debate about whether peados are bad or not... as I say, I thought that would be self evident .

I just don't like the insinuation that the childless are somehow morally inferior or more prone to support paedos *because* they are not parents, rather than there being different levels of morality or different views on life which are conditioned by a whole load of other stuff that doesn't spring from whether "the custard hit the spot"...

I'm sure you remember a time before you had kids when you still hated Paedos and would rather die than cause any hurt to innocent kids? Do you not grant, even from your position as parents, that those who haven't had kids can still feel like that?

Anyway, carry on. And enjoy Fathers Day when it comes.

In my defence vac, i was trying to understand why captain pancake face had such liberal veiws on paedophillia. so the he isnt a parent was about the only bone i could throw, to justify it (not that it helped). The debate had moved on to defining a 'paedo' so i did think my comments to you were fair based on the thread context at the time.

No hard feelings, i dont think, or suggest you have sympathies to the subject.

[Strokes]

I don't really find 14-15 year olds having sex disgusting. Fair enough if people do, but it's not really unnatural in any way and perfectly acceptable in some countries. I don't think CPF's friend is disgusting though I wonder how they met?

It's only disgusting when it includes psychological manipulation or abuse and that can happen at any age but young people are massively more vulnerable to it.

I wonder what would be the effect of lowering the age of consent to say 14? Would it cause societal collapse as hoards of horny old men hung around school at leaving time? Or would it actually change relatively little? (Personally I'm not particularly comfortable with people having relationships with much older people until about 18-21).

I'd actually like to know the opinion of women more than the opinion of men. It's often men who go on about paedophiles and there's a bit of an inequality in their thought often that it is wrong for girls to have sex with older men but they would have less of an issue with a boy having sex with an older women.

I cant even be bothered to respond to that, i just dispair

[Alf Bentley]

Yep, soixante huit, can't wait till this time next year 

 

Really? Thought it might come as a blow for you. 

[Webbo]

Yep, soixante huit, can't wait till this time next year 

Soixante neuf? That's a bit of a mouthful.

[Smudge]

Really? Thought it might come as a blow for you. 

It would, in fact it would be a miracle 

Soixante neuf? That's a bit of a mouthful

Thanks all the same Webby but no thanks 

Edited 28 February 2014 by Smudge

[pSinatra]

That's an excellent post Alf as much as we have access to history, you can't replicate living it.

 

You and Zingari have related most of what I would have said but I would add that the moral structure of society was quite different before say 1964 when in my view everything changed. 

 

Using foul language in front of women and children was castigated by anyone in earshot. "Dirty" jokes, as they were then called, were not told except in male company.

 

Sex before marriage was shameful and the condemnation that followed was unrelenting, the child was a bastard and treated like one. 

 

Girls or even young women who became pregnant, were sent away if the parents could afford it. This would avoid that person and moreover the family from having a an unmarried family member walking around the neighbourhood. In fact many couples had to get married to avoid that shame.

 

Abortion was illegal. Censorship was rife, so discussion of sex, nudity and the like were kept to the bedroom. If I'd even use a word like "sex" in conversation I would probably have got a slap on my face and told to wash my mouth out. Even sex education wasn't taught at my school.

 

In so saying, a subject like this just would not have been talked about and if discovered would have been such a rare crime, I can't remember anything of the sort.

 

What did go on, I believe, was child abuse from a family friend or member. The very fact that the children talking about the subject and feared the response from the family of such an accusation, fueled the silence, not dissimilar to Catholic boys by priests.

 

I'm not as old, but you are about the same age as my parents.

 

I am a product of the era you talk about, born in 1971.

 

I have always been aware that my parents were not allowed to sleep at each other's respective houses when they were first together.  None of their parents were particularly strict, but it was simply not allowed.

 

My parents married in March & I was born in September of the same year.......the maths don't add up.  It might seem like an odd question to ask your Mum, but I asked her "where was I consummated?".  She told me i was either the back of my Dad's Escort van or the Post House Motel 

 

Because she fell pregnant & because of the attitudes of the time, it was a given that they would marry.  I don't know if that technically makes me a bastard or not, but I can consider my self responsible for their 42 years of misery.  Had these circumstances been more recent, I doubt they would have married & I doubt my Mum would have followed through with the pregnancy.  It's difficult to appreciate what life was like 40 years ago or what attitudes will be 40 years from now.

 

Much like Zing, I didn't need much looking after & as soon as I was old enough to find my own way to school, my parents left me to it.  I was probably about 6 or 7.  They told me not to accept lifts from strangers & that was about it.....I went out in the morning & they wouldn't see me again until it started to get dark.  I got into a few scrapes, got chased by the police, took a whack off other people's parents, hung around places I shouldn't, etc.  Good or bad, it made me the person I am now.  

 

A few years ago I used to see someone who had 2 daughters - a 7 year old & a 10 year old.  Their school was a quarter of a mile up the same road they lived on.  I asked why she didn't at least let the older one walk to school on her own & she said "you don't know who's about?".  I don't believe there any more paedophiles about now than there was at any other time, but there is a media hyped climate of fear......to the point that I should worry what people think if I am innocently talking to a child.  People talk about letting 'children be children' but all I can see is children's lives being stifled.  There's no need to trust everything & everyone, but there is also no need to assume all men are paedophiles until proven otherwise.

 

The woman I refer to with the the two daughters, over a year into the relationship, wanted to visit her Dad in Glenfield hospital as we were in the area, but said she couldn't because of the girls being with us.  I offered to look after the girls whilst she went in to see her Dad.  In a roundabout way, she said she couldn't trust me with her children.  Fvck you!!  Needless to say the relationship didn't last much longer.

 

Not too comfortable mentioning this, but my own mother is a victim of abuse.....by her own father & over many years.  The eldest of three children, he never went near any of the other two.  She never mentioned it to anyone until maybe 10 years ago, because she knew nobody would believe her & that she was somehow responsible for it.  When she did eventually mention it, some of the people closest to her didn't believe her - particularly those of an older generation.  She kept up appearances & still maintained a relationship with her family & even her father.  I even appeared complicit (on the surface) & attended his funeral.........to avoid upsetting other family members & to make sure the bastard was dead!!  As the coffin went behind the curtain I told him to 'fvck you, you cvnt".

 

I'm not excusing Harman, Hewitt, Saville or anyone, but it was a very different atmosphere to what we understand now.

[The Year Of The Fox]

People who are late. ****ing disgusts me

[The God Emperor]

People who are late. ****ing disgusts me

especially when women are. If I had a penny for every time I've had to fake being lost at sea...

[AoWW]

Not being able to get out of NI for at least 3years due to StepFoxy3

 

BTW a 25 y/o going out with a 16 year y/o is creeepy in the extreme.

 

Doesn't sound to good. Hope all is ok. 

[bovril]

People who are late. ****ing disgusts me

 

In that case.... never ever ever leave the UK.

[FoxesAreBlue]

People who are late. ****ing disgusts me

Agreed.

[leicsmac]

Now teaching 32 classes a week instead of 27 because the school apparently "cant afford" to employ a new teacher to replace the one who left last month.

 

Yeah Ms. Director, I've seen the car you drive and the other school branches you run. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth like some fvcking politician and just admit you're a money-grubber who thinks it's a better business idea to run us all into the ground instead.