What grinds my gears...

[sphericalfox]

I don't claim to have first hand experience of teacher's working hours, I'm merely presenting the facts from a credible source that are totally at odds with the usual claims teachers make when attempting to justify striking. If anyone has a better source of information to inform this debate then I'm all ears. Until then I'll go on believing that teachers don't work any more hours on average than other professionals on similar salaries. It's as simple as that.

I don't know why you think I'm trolling. I have even said in other threads that I think the teaching profession should pay higher salaries to attract better talent while working harder to weed out the dross. All I'm saying here is that I don't believe they have anywhere near enough of a legitimate complaint to justify striking, and it seems to me as though it is rather obviously motivated by greed, which is pretty poor behaviour from people in their position. "It's all about the kids" - well obviously not.

So what public sector experience do you have? How many years? Have you always temped in the private sector?

[Dr The Singh]

I get my news from various sources not just the BBC or Government backed publications.

Seriously Ken, your points are as biased as Hitlers views on Jews and Gandhi's ability on not raping his niece

[purpleronnie]

I don't think moose is a troll....not the majority of time anyway, I don't think he's an idiot either, i do think that there's a little bit of blind faith going on.

[MooseBreath]

So what public sector experience do you have? How many years? Have you always temped in the private sector?

Couple of years as a direct public sector employee, more working with public sector clients. You?

[Dr The Singh]

I don't think moose is a troll....not the majority of time anyway, I don't think he's an idiot either, i do think that there's a little bit of blind faith going on.

I like him, but he can be a nob a lot of the time, unnecessarily

[Rincewind]

What was it you said you did again Moose?

From his expert knowledge, A part time teacher, fireman nurse, doctor cleaner, road sweeper, social worker, PM, train driver, bus driver, dustbin man, a tramp, a prostitute, and that is just Mondays.

[sphericalfox]

Couple of years as a direct public sector employee, more working with public sector clients. You?

Couple of years = 2years + More years, that's very specific. Getting the strong smell of bullschnit wafting from your general direction. Are you only in your early twenties?

I've got 8 years working in the public sector, 7 years in the private sector, not including 3 years self-employed.

[MooseBreath]

I don't think moose is a troll....not the majority of time anyway, I don't think he's an idiot either, i do think that there's a little bit of blind faith going on.

Anyone can read some mirror article on people dying because the evil tories have cut the funding for radiotherapy and feel annoyed. Anyone can listen to a teachers union moan and feel sympathetic. It takes a bit more thought to see the bigger picture, the consequences, the checks and balances, the reality. You're certainly capable of seeing the bigger picture but appear happy to find bliss in wilful ignorance.

[purpleronnie]

Anyone can read some mirror article on people dying because the evil tories have cut the funding for radiotherapy and feel annoyed. Anyone can listen to a teachers union moan and feel sympathetic. It takes a bit more thought to see the bigger picture, the consequences, the checks and balances, the reality. You're certainly capable of seeing the bigger picture but appear happy to find bliss in wilful ignorance.

And that works the other way too moose. You only seem to defend the tory line.

[Rincewind]

People dying is not important but cutting services is.

[MooseBreath]

Couple of years = 2years + More years, that's very specific. Getting the strong smell of bullschnit wafting from your general direction. Are you only in your early twenties?

I've got 8 years working in the public sector, 7 years in the private sector, not including 3 years self-employed.

Well it's difficult to say really. I've worked with public sector clients for about six years but not full time all the time. If I was to condense it down to full time equivalent I'd probably say another three so five in total plus six in the private sector.

[purpleronnie]

Well it's difficult to say really. I've worked with public sector clients for about six years but not full time all the time. If I was to condense it down to full time equivalent I'd probably say another three so five in total plus six in the private sector.

Moose, if the sector you worked for fought for better pay or improved working conditions would you be grateful?, would you not take or accept them?

[Illusion35]

I'm a teacher. I do work an average of 50 hours a week as do all my colleagues. Sometimes more. I do think pay and conditions could be better but I didn't go out on strike today. I don't think striking has any real effect and think its a bit selfish of public sector workers to strike, causing disruption to others. I'm sure most people in most jobs would like to improve their pay and conditions but don't just refuse to go to work!

I'm paid enough. Not a fortune, but enough. I get long holidays with my own children. I like working with children, although very hard work it's rewarding and hardly ever boring. Some people just moan incessantly regardless of what they have and are never satisfied. I think unions have a role to play but their power is decreasing - a lot of people defied the main teaching union by working today. I'm a member of the NUT but was not sufficiently convinced of their reasoning as to why a strike was necessary today or what it would achieve. I do hate the education secretary mind you - might have gone on strike if there was a chance it would get rid of him!

Just my rather rambling thoughts!

[MooseBreath]

Moose, if the sector you worked for fought for better pay or improved working conditions would you be grateful?, would you not take or accept them?

Depends why and how. I wouldn't strike based on questionable working hours claims four or five times a year, causing expense and disruption to millions if I was already paid a reasonable wage with an exceptional pension.

[Illusion35]

Depends why and how. I wouldn't strike based on questionable working hours claims four or five times a year, causing expense and disruption to millions if I was already paid a reasonable wage with an exceptional pension.

Couldn't agree more.

[Rincewind]

Good post. I'm not sure if they are right to strike or not. I am not a teacher and do not know all the facts. But it was not just about money was it? It was also to do with conditions and changes that make it difficult for teachers to do their jobs. It is also happening in the NHS and social sectors. The people that work in those areas are saying how changes are affecting people's lives but being ignored. At what point can they say enough is enough? Just a rethink is all they are asking for and admittance that they are not perfect all the time.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm a teacher. I do work an average of 50 hours a week as do all my colleagues. Sometimes more. I do think pay and conditions could be better but I didn't go out on strike today. I don't think striking has any real effect and think its a bit selfish of public sector workers to strike, causing disruption to others. I'm sure most people in most jobs would like to improve their pay and conditions but don't just refuse to go to work!

I'm paid enough. Not a fortune, but enough. I get long holidays with my own children. I like working with children, although very hard work it's rewarding and hardly ever boring. Some people just moan incessantly regardless of what they have and are never satisfied. I think unions have a role to play but their power is decreasing - a lot of people defied the main teaching union by working today. I'm a member of the NUT but was not sufficiently convinced of their reasoning as to why a strike was necessary today or what it would achieve. I do hate the education secretary mind you - might have gone on strike if there was a chance it would get rid of him!

Just my rather rambling thoughts!

Just a quick question, are you single and on tinder?

[sphericalfox]

I'm a teacher. I do work an average of 50 hours a week as do all my colleagues. Sometimes more. I do think pay and conditions could be better but I didn't go out on strike today. I don't think striking has any real effect and think its a bit selfish of public sector workers to strike, causing disruption to others. I'm sure most people in most jobs would like to improve their pay and conditions but don't just refuse to go to work!

I'm paid enough. Not a fortune, but enough. I get long holidays with my own children. I like working with children, although very hard work it's rewarding and hardly ever boring. Some people just moan incessantly regardless of what they have and are never satisfied. I think unions have a role to play but their power is decreasing - a lot of people defied the main teaching union by working today. I'm a member of the NUT but was not sufficiently convinced of their reasoning as to why a strike was necessary today or what it would achieve. I do hate the education secretary mind you - might have gone on strike if there was a chance it would get rid of him!

Just my rather rambling thoughts!

In what other way do you believe that your pay and/or conditions will improve if you think they should be better?

[Illusion35]

I didn't say they should be - I said they could be. I think most people would like to work less hours and be paid more!

I don't think our pay/conditions will improve, strike or no strike - I don't think today's strike will make any difference at all to the way policy makers in central government think. Michael Gove seems particularly set in his way of viewing the education sector and I don't think striking will change it. A potential change of government next year? That might.

One of the key elements of the 'five reasons to strike' set out by the NUT is to abolish performance related pay for teachers for instance. Why? The private sector has had performance related pay for years. If I perform badly and the children in my class do not make appropriate academic progress, why should I automatically be entitled to get paid more next year?

Giving tenuous reasons for strike action like this is why 4 out of 5 state schools were still open today. I'm not anti unions or anti striking especially, if the case is strong enough and there's a chance of making a difference. Neither of those things were there for me, personally, today.

[Stadt]

The youtube videos were people give homeless people food and stuff, yeah it's a really nice gesture but there's no need to film it unless they're trying to profit from it.

[Mike Oxlong]

In what other way do you believe that your pay and/or conditions will improve if you think they should be better?

Perhaps a transfer to a Swiss finishing school for young ladies would be a step in the right direction.

[The Doctor]

I didn't say they should be - I said they could be. I think most people would like to work less hours and be paid more!

I don't think our pay/conditions will improve, strike or no strike - I don't think today's strike will make any difference at all to the way policy makers in central government think. Michael Gove seems particularly set in his way of viewing the education sector and I don't think striking will change it. A potential change of government next year? That might.

One of the key elements of the 'five reasons to strike' set out by the NUT is to abolish performance related pay for teachers for instance. Why? The private sector has had performance related pay for years. If I perform badly and the children in my class do not make appropriate academic progress, why should I automatically be entitled to get paid more next year?

Giving tenuous reasons for strike action like this is why 4 out of 5 state schools were still open today. I'm not anti unions or anti striking especially, if the case is strong enough and there's a chance of making a difference. Neither of those things were there for me, personally, today.

Well, I suppose the argument would be that performance related pay punishes those who try to teach retards against those who have classes of the more intelligent pupils - if you've got a group of children who just aren't that bright you can do a far better job than a teacher who has a load of a/b students, but the results wouldn't reflect that. You don't get that in say, warehouse work - there aren't products that are tear aways that need taming before anything can be done.

Anyway, in a much more trivial gripe, I've got an ulcer on my tonsil and it's making eating or drinking a right pain.

[z-layrex]

Moving into an expensive new flat and having rats for the last 6 months. Nothing gets rid of them. How does this not void a tenancy agreement?

Landlords have too much power.

Edited 10 July 2014 by z-layrex

[Mike Oxlong]

Moving into an expensive new flat and having rats for the last 6 months. Nothing gets rid of them. How does this not void a tenancy agreement?

Landlords have too much power.

Maybe the landlord will kick you out and sue you for breaching the part of the agreement that stipulates you are not allowed to have pets.

[z-layrex]

Maybe the landlord will kick you out and sue you for breaching the part of the agreement that stipulates you are not allowed to have pets.

£1600pcm and my gf can't even sit in the living room when I'm not there as she's too scared. Agency doesn't give a shit.

Edited 11 July 2014 by z-layrex