What grinds my gears...

[Rincewind]

Getting stuck behind a march today

It never happened. Joking. I was in the centre this afternoon.

Where was that

Edited 12 July 2014 by Rincewind

[FoxyPV]

Belfast. The joyous brethren of the Orange Order were celebrating their sectarianism today

[Vacamion]

Belfast. The joyous brethren of the Orange Order were celebrating their sectarianism today

Marches get right on my nipple ends.

Loads of them round my way. You can't cross the street in front of them. They insist on blocking off roads the rest of us need to use.

The big march here is followed by Orcs in Rangers tops swigging Buckie out of the bottle. The police hate it.

It's more annoying in Scotland because the war they are marching about happened 300 years ago on another landmass.

A culture that has to express itself by being a dick to one's neighbours is not one I would celebrate.

[sphericalfox]

Getting stuck behind a march today

Was they pissed off about not getting any gay cake too?

[FoxyPV]

Marches get right on my nipple ends.

Loads of them round my way. You can't cross the street in front of them. They insist on blocking off roads the rest of us need to use.

The big march here is followed by Orcs in Rangers tops swigging Buckie out of the bottle. The police hate it.

It's more annoying in Scotland because the war they are marching about happened 300 years ago on another landmass.

A culture that has to express itself by being a dick to one's neighbours is not one I would celebrate.

I cannot rep this enough.

The **** at the head of the second march tried to block the road ahead at the traffic lights but someone nearly ran over him and I saw the gap and followed.

The bonfires have reached new lows this year with Anna Lo being specifically targeted, effigies of Catholics in nooses hanging off them and the perennial favourite, back to front Ivory Coast flags.

The pond life that follow the marches is grim and that's for both sides of the community.

[Matt]

Passes and Tackles in football being described as 'delicious', I don't get it, yes Clarke Carlisle that is directed at you.

Edited 12 July 2014 by Matt

[Stadt]

Just Clarke bloody Carlisle, Sam.

[Mark_w]

Procrastination. Had a list of things to do today, got one thing done so far and have to go out at 5pm...

Nobody to blame for it but myself.

I'd have given up half way through making the list.

[Rincewind]

Inappropriate people being in charge of important inquiries.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/home-office-baroness-butler-sloss-must-stand-down-or-be-removed-from-heading-abuse-inquiry?share_id=cZlyhrlhIP&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition.

[ozleicester]

Feels like I have a piece of glass in the left side of my throat. No idea why?

Have you checked........ i lost some glass

[Guest MattP]

People who still try to claim the EU is democratic.

Where was Junckers name on the ballot form?

[Mike Oxlong]

Cabinet reshuffles. Different names, same old shit.

Edited 15 July 2014 by Mike Oxlong

[Guest MattP]

Cosmestic politics - I'm looking at you Mr Cameron.

I realise it's neccessary in this day and age that a person's gender, race etc is more important that their ability to actually do a job but good people are being removed from positions they have done very well in.

Only bright spot is he kept IDS where he is.

[Merging Cultures]

How do you profit from handing food out?

Put rufis in the sandwiches so that the homeless get knocked out, and then harvest body parts?

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Put rufis in the sandwiches so that the homeless get knocked out, and then harvest body parts?

Have you seen a homeless? I don't think anyone would pay for their innards, or outards for that matter

[Captain...]

People who still try to claim the EU is democratic.

Where was Junckers name on the ballot form?

He was elected by the people we elected to represent our views in Europe.

Democracy is a fallacy and is nothing more than the illusion of choice, in that sense the EU is no more or less democratic than any other system of government.

But accusing them of being undemocratic because you disagree with the outcome is just sour grapes. Cameron didn't want Juncker, and neither did the Hungarians, the rest support his appointment, 26 out of 28 member states.

He received an absolute majority of votes by the democratically elected European Parliament, 422 out of 729, sounds democratic to me.

Edited 15 July 2014 by Captain Pancake Face

[Guest MattP]

He was elected by the people we elected to represent our views in Europe.

Democracy is a fallacy and is nothing more than the illusion of choice, in that sense the EU is no more or less democratic than any other system of government.

But accusing them of being undemocratic because you disagree with the outcome is just sour grapes. Cameron didn't want Juncker, and neither did the Hungarians, the rest support his appointment, 26 out of 28.

He received an absolute majority of votes by the democratically elected European Parliament, 422 out of 729, sounds democratic to me.

Yeah, we'll never agree on what democracy is. His name didn't appear on a single ballot paper anywhere.

It would be like the Tories being elected next year and then choosing Cliff Richard to be prime minister, only good thing is the more this sort of thing is presented as democracy and the more back room deals we see it brings us far closer to leaving.

[FrankieADZ]

cold callers on the phone,

they just dont shut up.

[Captain...]

Yeah, we'll never agree on what democracy is. His name didn't appear on a single ballot paper anywhere.

It would be like the Tories being elected next year and then choosing Cliff Richard to be prime minister, only good thing is the more this sort of thing is presented as democracy and the more back room deals we see it brings us far closer to leaving.

I don't know if the democratically elected members of the European Parliament use ballot papers, or a more electronic method, but I'm pretty sure whatever method was used his name was on it and was voted for by the people we elected to represent our views in Europe. Further to that it was known that he would be the EPP's candidate for President of the European Commission going in to the 2014 European elections, so any vote for an EPP member was a vote in full knowledge that Juncker would be their candidate.

So in your scenario, yes it would be like the Tories being elected running a Cliff Richard PM, and if we voted for the Tories knowing that they would put Cliff as PM, then we would deserve everything we get.

[Guest MattP]

I don't know if the democratically elected members of the European Parliament use ballot papers, or a more electronic method, but I'm pretty sure whatever method was used his name was on it

Who else's name was on it in this 'election'?

[Captain...]

Who else's name was on it in this 'election'?

How does that not make it democratic? They could vote for or against him.

I see you conveniently ignored my second point, so I will make it again in more detail.

March the 7th Juncker was elected by the EPP to be their candidate for President of the European Commission, he won this election against Michael Barnier, this was over 2 months before the European elections, and Juncker was used to "spearhead" the EPP campaign. Much in the same we elect a leader of the party in the UK, who will become PM.

http://www.epp.eu/jean-claude-juncker-elected-epp-candidate-president-european-commission

When the EPP won a majority in the EP he gained a democratic mandate to be the president of the European Commission, he may not have been on any of the MEP ballot papers, but everyone voting for an EPP candidate knew they were voting for the EPP candidate for the parliament with Juncker as President of the European Commission, in the same way we vote for a party member to be an MP with the party leader becoming PM.

Before he could take that position though, it had to be ratified by the democratically elected heads of member states, a vote he won 26/28 and the democratically elected members of the European Parliament, which he won 422/729.

Edited 15 July 2014 by Captain Pancake Face

[Guest MattP]

How does that not make it democratic? They could vote for or against him.

I see you conveniently ignored my second point, so I will make it again in more detail.

March the 7th Juncker was elected by the EPP to be their candidate for President of the European Commission, he won this election against Michael Barnier, this was over 2 months before the European elections, and Juncker was used to "spearhead" the EPP campaign. Much in the same we elect a leader of the party in the UK, who will become PM.

http://www.epp.eu/jean-claude-juncker-elected-epp-candidate-president-european-commission

When the EPP won a majority in the EP he gained a democratic mandate to be the president of the European Commission, he may not have been on any of the MEP ballot papers, but everyone voting for an EPP candidate knew they were voting for the EPP candidate for the parliament with Juncker as President of the European Commission, in the same way we vote for a party member to be an MP with the party leader becoming PM.

Before he could take that position though, it had to be ratified by the democratically elected heads of member states, a vote he won 26/28 and the democratically elected members of the European Parliament, which he won 422/729.

Having one name on a voting form where someone else can't put themselves up for election isn't really my idea of democracy.

The EPP can contain any party and is open to negotiation after any election, to say people knew they were voting for someone in the EPP is pushing it a bit, what about the new groups formed after, ones that closed, to suggest we are voting on the basis of which group they join isn't cutting it for me at all.

Though if you seriously believe everyone who voted for a party within the EPP knew they were voting for Juncker then it's pointless carrying on (ridiculous to compare it to us voting for a PM as well, absurd), but I suppose you can actually 'package' democracy how you want to these days.

Roll on 2019. (although I fully expect them to have completely done away with these elections by then as they probably know they will struggle next time to get the result they want)

Edited 15 July 2014 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

I'm assuming also by the idea we now vote for parties who can go into coalition and have to accept it you completely withdraw your assertion from a while back that Lib Dems voters didn't vote for the coalition with the Conservatives?

Because you know thats what happens, you vote and then parties can form into a group, become the biggest group, grab power and choose the leader. Nothing wrong with it all.

Edited 15 July 2014 by MattP

[Fox92]

cold callers on the phone,

they just dont shut up.

Hate them. Those automatic calls as well.

I'll be doing something I'm enjoying, phone goes, I have to get up to answer it only to find it's a stupid message about insurance or PPI.

[Captain...]

I'm assuming also by the idea we now vote for parties who can go into coalition and have to accept it you completely withdraw your assertion from a while back that Lib Dems voters didn't vote for the coalition with the Conservatives?

Because you know thats what happens, you vote and then parties can form into a group, become the biggest group, grab power and choose the leader. Nothing wrong with it all.

Seeing as Juncker was announced as the EPP candidate before the elections and the coalition was formed after the elections you can see the difference in this case,

Yes the EPP can change after the elections, much like a coalition can be formed in the UK, it doesn't make it undemocratic as it is still made up of elected officials, but just because it is democratic, doesn't make it right, but we are not arguing that. We are arguing that Juncker was democratically elected or not, and the process that I have just explained there is clearly enough democratic process involved, elected by the EPP, ratified by 2 democratically elected bodies, for me to disagree with you that it is "undemocratic". Is it completely democratic? No, but nothing is in any of our systems of government and for it to be so would be ridiculous.

Nobody voted for a coalition party, more people voted not for the Tories than for them, but they got the majority and got to make the parliament they wanted. Was it completely democratic? No, but there was enough democratic process in there for it not to be classed as undemocratic.