What grinds my gears...

[MC Prussian]

This off-season.

 

Pearson in.

[Footballwipe]

This tube strike and the subsequent media coverage

 

An unpopular opinion it may be, but why the hell is everyone so obsessed with comparing a tube driver's salary to a junior doctor? Can we just take a minute to realise how different those jobs are, and comparing them is ridiculous. While we're at it, let's compare Andy King's annual salary to that of a Tube worker.

 

I'm disappointed they're striking, the one thing London needs is an extended operational hours and this should come with the territory and a 21st century city. London needs the tube running as much as possible, and it's something that should be accepted, especially with the terms offered.

 

But the comparisons, demonising them because a junior doctor gets £22,500 and they get £50k is laughable. Plus, if you've seen the pictures of today's carnage on the morning commute it's easy to see how critical they are to the 'smooth' running of London on a normal day. Take them for granted at your peril.

[Nalis]

This tube strike and the subsequent media coverage

An unpopular opinion it may be, but why the hell is everyone so obsessed with comparing a tube driver's salary to a junior doctor? Can we just take a minute to realise how different those jobs are, and comparing them is ridiculous. While we're at it, let's compare Andy King's annual salary to that of a Tube worker.

I'm disappointed they're striking, the one thing London needs is an extended operational hours and this should come with the territory and a 21st century city. London needs the tube running as much as possible, and it's something that should be accepted, especially with the terms offered.

But the comparisons, demonising them because a junior doctor gets £22,500 and they get £50k is laughable. Plus, if you've seen the pictures of today's carnage on the morning commute it's easy to see how critical they are to the 'smooth' running of London on a normal day. Take them for granted at your peril.

That doesnt give them an excuse to spit the dummy out and put one of the most significant cities in the world at a standstill just because they happen to be in a job whereby they cause so much disruption that its exploited in this manner.

The unions associated with TFL are such greedy self obsessed twats with people at the top of those unions pathetically attempting to be the next Bob Crow.

[Danno]

Morons who moan about the tube strike when they don't have the first clue what they're striking about make me laugh. Although seeing loads of Cockneys and home counties wankers seething is amazing.

[Nalis]

Morons who moan about the tube strike when they don't have the first clue what they're striking about make me laugh. Although seeing loads of Cockneys and home counties wankers seething is amazing.

I would have thought most people knew. Most people I have spoken to today seem to knew what its about, easy enough for people to find out online, on the news or in the written press but I guess there will always be the informed...

[Finnegan]

That doesnt give them an excuse to spit the dummy out and put one of the most significant cities in the world at a standstill just because they happen to be in a job whereby they cause so much disruption that its exploited in this manner.

The unions associated with TFL are such greedy self obsessed twats with people at the top of those unions pathetically attempting to be the next Bob Crow.

Good on them.

They're a cracking example of why we should all be in unions.

The majority of people complaining about them are largely just envious. If you could rally your coworkers in to a protest and earn a pay rise, you would. Most of us would.

You want to live in a capitalist world of supply and demand, you can't moan about the rail workers for realising they provide a massively in demand service and can kick off to make sure they up the price they charge for it.

Don't see how it's any different to premiership footballers or movie stars taking home enormous wages because they provide a service that's massively in demand.

[MC Prussian]

Drivers taking away the way of right for pedestrians on indicated crossings.

 

If you want to race, please do it on you cell phone or Playstation.

[purpleronnie]

Good on them.

They're a cracking example of why we should all be in unions.

The majority of people complaining about them are largely just envious. If you could rally your coworkers in to a protest and earn a pay rise, you would. Most of us would.

You want to live in a capitalist world of supply and demand, you can't moan about the rail workers for realising they provide a massively in demand service and can kick off to make sure they up the price they charge for it.

Don't see how it's any different to premiership footballers or movie stars taking home enormous wages because they provide a service that's massively in demand.

I think if it was down to some we would still be sending kids down the mines and paying 10p a hour.

[Rincewind]

I think if it was down to some we would still be sending kids down the mines and paying 10p a hour.

Yes as long as it does not disrupt or inconvenience their everyday lives some people would accept that.

Edited 9 July 2015 by Rincewind

[Nalis]

We aren't talking about tube drivers on minimum wages here asking for a fairer wage though are we guys?

I supported the strike in respect of the closure of ticket offices resulting in the loss of numerous jobs. I understand the latest dispute, but striking over it? Smacks of selfishness to me.

[Xen]

Vlookup, countifs, rank, datedif, etc.

I must be one of the few people in the world who genuinely loves Excel...

[Finnegan]

Why do they have to be on minimum wage to want to be paid more? I'm not on minimum wage but I'd love more money.

I'm not saying there isn't self interest involved but that's what capitalism has given us. Why is the entire country outraged when a union strikes for more money yet everyone happily forks out hundreds of pounds for the latest apple products, wide screen tellies and other stupidly over priced crap?

Answer: mixture of right wing propaganda and "politics of envy" (ironically a catchphrase banded about by the right when the left moan about middle class rich people, ie people who are allowed to be rich.)

If it's okay for Apple, Microsoft, Sony and co to exploit demand to charge ridiculously for their products then it's okay for tube drivers to demand more for theirs.

Can't have it both ways.

If we were all in unions, the average wage would be much higher and CEO bonuses a lot lower!

[purpleronnie]

Yes as long as it does not disrupt or inconvenience their everyday lives some people would accept that.

Yep and then those people moaning have the gall to call the strikers selfish    Pot v kettle.

[Darkon84]

Don't tube drivers start off at a wage around £50k per year? How can they justify striking so often? They have a greater starting wage, work less hours on average, and have more annual leave per year than most teachers, nurses, doctors and policemen.

 

It just seems pretty unreasonable to strike so often, when they're already seemingly on a good deal. I find it hard to back them and sympathize when they already seem to be taking the pi$$ a bit.

 

I will, however, say that I'm no expert on the situation, so perhaps I'm missing something huge here.

[Finnegan]

To me, that's looking at it backwards. If you're being socially conscious, frankly nurses, firemen, policemen et all should probably be paid more. It's tragic that you can be paid more in a week to play football than you can for a year of jumping in to fires to save lives.

But comparing tube drivers to other "lowly" professionals, in terms of wages, is missing the point.

What sets them apart isn't what they do but that they ate well organised for collective bargaining and have the muscle to stand up for themselves and demand more.

Most of us aren't. I find it hard to resent them for it, though, (although I'd agree there's piss taking going on) when they're just taking part in a machine they didn't create.

[Darkon84]

To me, that's looking at it backwards. If you're being socially conscious, frankly nurses, firemen, policemen et all should probably be paid more. It's tragic that you can be paid more in a week to play football than you can for a year of jumping in to fires to save lives.

But comparing tube drivers to other "lowly" professionals, in terms of wages, is missing the point.

What sets them apart isn't what they do but that they ate well organised for collective bargaining and have the muscle to stand up for themselves and demand more.

Most of us aren't. I find it hard to resent them for it, though, (although I'd agree there's piss taking going on) when they're just taking part in a machine they didn't create.

 

Oh I can totally see your point, where, ideally we'd all like more money and would possibly do the same if we could, and 'people power' is all great etc, but come on, it's totally dickish.

 

Comparing to footballers is a mile off the mark, and you know it , hence why I compared to similar(ish) professions.

 

I really don't think it's missing the point by comparing to similar levels of jobs etc. At what point do they just get told to fook off, someone else will do it instead? How long can they hold people to ransom, and for how much. Their package is already far more than they should ever be getting. Unions, if used well, can be a great idea, but this is taking the pi$$ a bit. Nurses etc have unions too, but you don't see entire hospitals or cities shutting down over it. There's still a level of responsibility to adhere to.

Edited 9 July 2015 by Darkon84

[Nalis]

Lets all just agree that if we had absolute minimal qualifications after leaving school and lived in London we would join TFL as a driver and exploit the fully paid training, salary and benefits on offer (assuming thats the sole motivator that is)...

[separator]

Lets all just agree that if we had absolute minimal qualifications after leaving school and lived in London we would join TFL as a driver and exploit the fully paid training, salary and benefits on offer (assuming thats the sole motivator that is)...

TfL advertised for a few hundred tube station jobs a couple of years ago and 30,000 people applied. Most tube drivers are now hired internally from these station staff, I know a few tube drivers, its certainly a big pay rise and some lines have automatic trains where all they do is press a button to open the the doors. Not bad for £50k, tbf a lot of their training is for when things go wrong.

[Finnegan]

Oh I can totally see your point, where, ideally we'd all like more money and would possibly do the same if we could, and 'people power' is all great etc, but come on, it's totally dickish.

Comparing to footballers is a mile off the mark, and you know it , hence why I compared to similar(ish) professions.

I really don't think it's missing the point by comparing to similar levels of jobs etc. At what point do they just get told to fook off, someone else will do it instead? How long can they hold people to ransom, and for how much. Their package is already far more than they should ever be getting. Unions, if used well, can be a great idea, but this is taking the pi$$ a bit. Nurses etc have unions too, but you don't see entire hospitals or cities shutting down over it. There's still a level of responsibility to adhere to.

The point is you can't just tell them to **** off because they're organised and united.

The reason I don't compare them to other lower skill professionals is that other trades don't have the same demand. TFL has an entire economy dependant on it running efficiently and can cost infrastructure millions when they withdraw their service. That's power because there's demand.

The fact that the majority of staff on the network is what makes it all possible.

[Darkon84]

The point is you can't just tell them to **** off because they're organised and united.

The reason I don't compare them to other lower skill professionals is that other trades don't have the same demand. TFL has an entire economy dependant on it running efficiently and can cost infrastructure millions when they withdraw their service. That's power because there's demand.

The fact that the majority of staff on the network is what makes it all possible.

 

 

It's one thing to be united when things matter, but it's another thing altogether to hold everyone to ransom just because they're being greedy. It's an example of both how a union can work, and how a union can be utterly bollocks at the same time. You can't say that there isn't the same or at least a very high demand for nurses, because there is, yet they still take their responsibility seriously and don't act like this.

 

EDIT. I think we're just going to end up going round and round here, so I think I'm just going to go back to rocking, and sobbing uncontrollably in the LCFC forum

Edited 9 July 2015 by Darkon84

[Webbo]

The point is you can't just tell them to **** off because they're organised and united.

The reason I don't compare them to other lower skill professionals is that other trades don't have the same demand. TFL has an entire economy dependant on it running efficiently and can cost infrastructure millions when they withdraw their service. That's power because there's demand.

The fact that the majority of staff on the network is what makes it all possible.

It's power because they have a monopoly. A bit rich when someone in a low skilled job on £50k a year go on strike for more money when it's the unions who are always accusing everyone else of greed.

[Merging Cultures]

Vlookup, countifs, rank, datedif, etc.

Oohh I love that stuff.

[Strokes]

Why do they have to be on minimum wage to want to be paid more? I'm not on minimum wage but I'd love more money.

I'm not saying there isn't self interest involved but that's what capitalism has given us. Why is the entire country outraged when a union strikes for more money yet everyone happily forks out hundreds of pounds for the latest apple products, wide screen tellies and other stupidly over priced crap?

Answer: mixture of right wing propaganda and "politics of envy" (ironically a catchphrase banded about by the right when the left moan about middle class rich people, ie people who are allowed to be rich.)

If it's okay for Apple, Microsoft, Sony and co to exploit demand to charge ridiculously for their products then it's okay for tube drivers to demand more for theirs.

Can't have it both ways.

If we were all in unions, the average wage would be much higher and CEO bonuses a lot lower!

Who said it was ok for Apple to exploit?

Sent from my iPad using tapatalk

[Vicki Vixen]

Buying our first house. Fvck me, the number of people you're obliged to hand over money to in this process, for doing very little in return. £1000 here, £1000 there...

Someone needs to package all these fees together, commoditise the whole thing through an online-only product, and drive the market inefficiencies out.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Buying our first house. Fvck me, the number of people you're obliged to hand over money to in this process, for doing very little in return. £1000 here, £1000 there...

Someone needs to package all these fees together, commoditise the whole thing through an online-only product, and drive the market inefficiencies out.

 

It's horrible isn't it? It's bad enough trying to save up for the deposit, then you've got to get another £3000 together just for bloody paperwork and someone to pop round with a clipboard