Tennis

[Grewks]

have you not seen the way he acts on court. fist every shot he makes it gets on your nerves and seems to sulk when things go against him. for the good of god please please please i hope he fails and never wins another grand slam

 

 

I take it you're not a fan of Kasper then??

[Grewks]

  But I think you'll find, that in my argument, I did say it was different because they are team games. Those players are represented my club. If we win something it says Leicester City won something. If Murray wins something it says Andy Murray won something.

 

It's just my general feeling. I don't really have pride in being British, or even English, but I do have pride about my City and football club. It's more personal.

 

As for Murray specifically, there's not pandering to the press and then there's coming across as unbelievably miserable. I don't like the way he plays either, he loses his temper a lot, his body language is often poor. He's just miserable and negative all over. I mean really, all the things you've said in his favour are just other ways of saying he's a total bore and has no charisma.

 

Your post is exactly what I mean, you're getting annoyed because I don't support Murray. Why? Why should I support him?Just because he's British? I don't even extend that kind of favouritism towards the England team anymore.

 

 

He's Scottish...of course he is miserable.

[Guest ttfn]

  But I think you'll find, that in my argument, I did say it was different because they are team games. Those players are represented my club. If we win something it says Leicester City won something. If Murray wins something it says Andy Murray won something.

 

It's just my general feeling. I don't really have pride in being British, or even English, but I do have pride about my City and football club. It's more personal.

 

As for Murray specifically, there's not pandering to the press and then there's coming across as unbelievably miserable. I don't like the way he plays either, he loses his temper a lot, his body language is often poor. He's just miserable and negative all over. I mean really, all the things you've said in his favour are just other ways of saying he's a total bore and has no charisma.

 

Your post is exactly what I mean, you're getting annoyed because I don't support Murray. Why? Why should I support him?Just because he's British? I don't even extend that kind of favouritism towards the England team anymore.

I'm not annoyed at all. I'm just saying your argument's a nonsense. It is.

 

If you're willing to make the distinction between individual and team (which I understand, but don't think you've fully rationalised) I don't get the point you're making about "he doesn't care about me so why should I care about him". I mean, a team is an abstract entity. It can't feel caring emotions. So essentially you seem to be muddled.

 

I really don't get what you're arguing. You don't like Murray because he doesn't care about Britain, but you do like Leicester because you have a great affinity with the town. Would you like Murray if he was a footballer for Leicester? Because you seem pretty willing to tolerate some reprehensible or at the very least unpleasant characters playing for City (drink-driving Morgan for example) because they represent your city. Perhaps the issue is less with Murray and more with your relationship with Britain.

 

By the way, Murray just gave an absolutely outstanding interview at the end of the match, praising his opponent for his excellent serving, offering a genuine tactical insight into the match and explaining where he thought he could improve. But unfortunately a lot of people have pre-conceived ideas about Murray.

Edit: To clarify I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that I really don't understand what you're trying to argue. And I think your post comes across as pretty bitter. There's a lot to dislike in all of the big tennis players. The fact is that they represent an entire team on their own. 

Edited 3 July 2013 by ttfn

[purpleronnie]

I thought Janowicz might pass out when interviewed, not sure if he was just overcome with emotion or hyperventilating...but i guess it shows you what winning that match meant to him.

[Kitchandro]

I'm not annoyed at all. I'm just saying your argument's a nonsense. It is.

 

If you're willing to make the distinction between individual and team (which I understand, but don't think you've fully rationalised) I don't get the point you're making about "he doesn't care about me so why should I care about him". I mean, a team is an abstract entity. It can't feel caring emotions. So essentially you seem to be muddled.

 

I really don't get what you're arguing. You don't like Murray because he doesn't care about Britain, but you do like Leicester because you have a great affinity with the town. Would you like Murray if he was a footballer for Leicester? Because you seem pretty willing to tolerate some reprehensible or at the very least unpleasant characters playing for City (drink-driving Morgan for example) because they represent your city. Perhaps the issue is less with Murray and more with your relationship with Britain.

 

By the way, Murray just gave an absolutely outstanding interview at the end of the match, praising his opponent for his excellent serving, offering a genuine tactical insight into the match and explaining where he thought he could improve. But unfortunately a lot of people have pre-conceived ideas about Murray.

Edit: To clarify I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that I really don't understand what you're trying to argue. And I think your post comes across as pretty bitter. There's a lot to dislike in all of the big tennis players. The fact is that they represent an entire team on their own. 

 

I've not said I don't care about him because he doesn't care about us. I've said (now for the third time) that I don't feel any attachment to him because he's just an individual. You seem to be the one with double standards though, if he doesn't see himself as one of us (whether that's Britain or England, he doesn't) then why must I get stick for feeling the same?

 

Don't patronise me, I'm aware the club/team can't feel emotions, that doesn't matter. What does matter is I feel an attachment to my local team and not to an individual who happens to be from Britain - and not Leicester. Not even England, who have a seperate football team to Scotland, and as such I've never grown up supporting Scottish sportsman.

 

You're mistaking me for other people on this thread, so essentially you seem to be muddled. I've never said I don't like Murray because he's not English, or because he doesn't care about Britain.

 

And in his interview he sounded like a miserable sod, as usual. Speaking in monotone and just generally being downbeat. So fvck that. He is a miserable bastard, only someone as overly patriotic as you can't see that.

 

No bitterness, just calling it as I see it. You're the one getting up tight because I refuse to passionately punch the air when Murray wins a point.

Edited 3 July 2013 by Kitchandro

[shearfox]

I thought Janowicz might pass out when interviewed, not sure if he was just overcome with emotion or hyperventilating...but i guess it shows you what winning that match meant to him.

It did seem that way, he was shaking like mad. Obviously it is the best moment of his career and was trying to stop himself from bursting out crying in front of the camera.

Edited 3 July 2013 by shearfox

[buzzy]

I take it you're not a fan of Kasper then??

i don't like murray or his mother thats how i started my rant and this is where it ends for me. . this has nothing to do with kasper or anyone else just murray

[Guest ttfn]

1) I've not said I don't care about him because he doesn't care about us. I've said (now for the third time) that I don't feel any attachment to him because he's just an individual. You seem to be the one with double standards though, if he doesn't see himself as one of us (whether that's Britain or England, he doesn't) then why must I get stick for feeling the same?

 

2) Don't patronise me, I'm aware the club/team can't feel emotions, that doesn't matter. What does matter is I feel an attachment to my local team and not to an individual who happens to be from Britain - and not Leicester. Not even England, who have a seperate football team to Scotland, and as such I've never grown up supporting Scottish sportsman.

 

3) You're mistaking me for other people on this thread, so essentially you seem to be muddled. I've never said I don't like Murray because he's not English, or because he doesn't care about Britain.

 

4) And in his interview he sounded like a miserable sod, as usual. Speaking in monotone and just generally being downbeat. So fvck that. He is a miserable bastard, only someone as overly patriotic as you can't see that.

 

5) No bitterness, just calling it as I see it. You're the one getting up tight because I refuse to passionately punch the air when Murray wins a point.

 

I've tried to reply to this a couple of times but I keep accidentally deleting it.

 

1) You're suggesting I've said a lot of things which I haven't even hinted at, let alone said.

 

2) But you still haven't explain why a team is different to an individual. How is it that you feel attachment to an abstract concept like a football club and not to a person who is representing your country? I don't understand why you think this is patronising, you haven't explained it.

 

3) When did I suggest that? I didn't say that! If anything, you're mistaking me for others on this thread.

 

4) He has a monotone voice. Some people do. Some of the most interesting people I know have monotone voices. More fool you if you judge what a person says through their intonation rather than the substance of their words. How am I "overly patriotic"? I wasn't even sure I wanted Murray to win until the 5th set. Again, inferring things that just aren't there in what I've said.

 

5) Maybe you're not bitter. Oh wait, that last sentence was about the most bitter thing I've seen in this thread.

Edited 3 July 2013 by ttfn

[Guest ttfn]

To get back to the actual tennis played, Verdasco's serving was absolutely brilliant, he deserves all the praise he gets.

 

Murray played like a dick in the second set but pulled it together in 3 and 4. 5 was a toss-up and Murray came through. It could have gone either way, but if you're world number 2 I'd suppose once you get to the 5th you expect to come through it more often than not.

[Kitchandro]

I've tried to reply to this a couple of times but I keep accidentally deleting it.

 

1) You're suggesting I've said a lot of things which I haven't even hinted at, let alone said.

 

2) But you still haven't explain why a team is different to an individual. How is it that you feel attachment to an abstract concept like a football club and not to a person who is representing your country? I don't understand why you think this is patronising, you haven't explained it.

 

3) When did I suggest that? I didn't say that! If anything, you're mistaking me for others on this thread.

 

4) He has a monotone voice. Some people do. Some of the most interesting people I know have monotone voices. More fool you if you judge what a person says through their intonation rather than the substance of their words. How am I "overly patriotic"? I wasn't even sure I wanted Murray to win until the 5th set. Again, inferring things that just aren't there in what I've said.

 

5) Maybe you're not bitter. Oh wait, that last sentence was about the most bitter thing I've seen in this thread.

 

You've got some interesting things to say. It would be nice if you read what people debating with you said rather than just writing back against what you think they said. Please reconsider what I wrote and then let me know what you think.

 

Okay, maybe that last bit WAS  a bit patronising...

 

1) I don't agree. I don't think you could have been more clear in what you were suggesting, I'm just rebuffing what you've suggested (and directly said).

 

2) What's so difficult to understand about an individual being different to a team? Or about my City and Club (who I've seen play in the flesh loads of times) are more personal to me than one bloke who's from somewhere I've probably never been to? Or about me feeling a certain way about certain things in sport? And your tone is patronising. Especially as you're claiming I'm in a muddle when it's you who can't grasp a simple concept.

 

3) Yes you have suggested that. 'You don't like Murray because he doesn't care about Britain'. Your words.

 

4) I assume it's patriotism that drives you because you haven't given a sensible reason why I should support Murray. As I've been trying to point out to you, I don't care that he's British so what other connection am I supposed to have with him? And I don't find him interesting. At all. I argued he had no charisma and appears miserable all the while. In response you argued that he just gave an outstanding interview. But I still find him boring to listen to, miserable and he certainly has no charisma. Because that's how he comes across, nothing to do with preconceptions, he comes across like that now.

 

5) So it's bitter to not be passionately behind Murray now? Ha! Exactly my issue with you in this thread. You just cannot accept that I don't support Murray. Or can't accept that I might see sport differently to you. Or whatever, I don't know your problem is. Maybe you're just in an argumentative mood.

 

And strangest of all you've picked issue with me, someone who has actually said they would like to see him in the final in this thread.

Edited 3 July 2013 by Kitchandro

[Guest ttfn]

1) I don't agree. I don't think you could have been more clear in what you were suggesting, I'm just rebuffing what you've suggested (and directly said).

 

2) What's so difficult to understand about an individual being different to a team? Or about my City and Club (who I've seen play in the flesh loads of times) are more personal to me than one bloke who's from somewhere I've probably never been to? Or about me feeling a certain way about certain things in sport? And your tone is patronising. Especially as you're claiming I'm in a muddle when it's you who can't grasp a simple concept.

 

3) Yes you have suggested that. 'You don't like Murray because he doesn't care about Britain'. Your words.

 

4) I assume it's patriotism that drives you because you haven't given a sensible reason why I should support Murray. As I've been trying to point out to you, I don't care that he's British so what other connection am I supposed to have with him? And I don't find him interesting. At all. I argued he had no charisma and appears miserable all the while. In response you argued that he just gave an outstanding interview. But I still find him boring to listen to, miserable and he certainly has no charisma. Because that's how he comes across, nothing to do with preconceptions, he comes across like that now.

 

5) So it's bitter to not be passionately behind Murray now? Ha! Exactly my issue with you in this thread. You just cannot accept that I don't support Murray. Or can't accept that I might see sport differently to you. Or whatever, I don't know your problem is. Maybe you're just in an argumentative mood.

 

And strangest of all you've picked issue with me, someone who has actually said they would like to see him in the final in this thread.

Re 1 and 2, we're going around in circles. I don't think I understand what you're arguing and I think that the reason for that is that you don't fully understand what you're arguing. I think you've got a couple of good points but I don't see how they tie together.

 

You're right re: 3, I did say that! Touche.

 

Re: 4 the "burden of proof" isn't with me. You're the one saying you don't like him, I'm not the one saying I do. Hypothetically, if I were to suggest some reasons for liking Murray:

• Genuine world-class talent.
• Humble in victory and defeat.
• Dogged fighter, as demonstrated today.

 

I don't really know what else you want in a top-class sportsman, to be honest. There's a lot of stuff I don't like about him, but I don't see why anybody would begrudge him his success.

 

Re 5, I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing with your points. You clearly couldn't give a shit, to the extent that I can't give a shit, and yet both of us are sad enough to be arguing away our Wednesday nights on the issue.

 

Foxestalk. We're all varying degrees of sad-act.

[Super_horns]

After the fairly easy wins so far Murray clearly just fancied doing a "Henman at Wimbledon" type match!

 

Seems to be good at coming from 2 sets down though so fair play.

 

Hopefully won't be too knackered for tough tests to come.

 

As for the England stuff - in recent years I've got the impressive from some English football fans that they couldn't care less what the national team because of the players in it.

[kingfox]

This last page is clogged up with absolute and utter shit.

 

It was going so well and was on point with Wimbledon, then some idiots mess it up by moaning about Murray, a debate which most people had about five years ago.

[Guest ttfn]

This last page is clogged up with absolute and utter shit.

It was going so well and was on point with Wimbledon, then some idiots mess it up by moaning about Murray, a debate which most people had about five years ago.

Maybe you could offer up some of your famous banter to kick start the thread then?

[Corky]

This last page is clogged up with absolute and utter shit.

 

It was going so well and was on point with Wimbledon, then some idiots mess it up by moaning about Murray, a debate which most people had about five years ago.

 

And then you turn up.

[kingfox]

Maybe you could offer up some of your famous banter to kick start the thread then?

 

And then you turn up.

 

I and others were talking Wimbledon until Buzzy and Leicesterpool stuck their nose in and basically started all this off.

 

Don't go having a go at me, look back a page or two.

 

Kingfox and others acting normal, and enjoying the Tennis.

 

Not bringing up shit which was debated years ago. 

[HEGGSY]

I'm with KF on this one.

If you're not here to talk about Wimbledon, fvck off. Simple.

[buzzy]

I and others were talking Wimbledon until Buzzy and Leicesterpool stuck their nose in and basically started all this off.

 

Don't go having a go at me, look back a page or two.

 

Kingfox and others acting normal, and enjoying the Tennis.

 

Not bringing up shit which was debated years ago. 

i used to like tennis until mens tennis just became serve and volley . its boring and no i still hate the murrays so get over it. did i spoil your thread 

[Guest MattP]

i used to like tennis until mens tennis just became serve and volley . its boring and no i still hate the murrays so get over it. did i spoil your thread 

 

Wtf

 

Mens tennis has moved away from serve and volley to being mainly a baseline game now.

 

Look at the top 5, Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Nadal and Ferrer - all baseliners.

 

The courts at Wimbledon are slower than they have ever been. I can't remember the last genuine serve volleyer who won a tournament.

[buzzy]

I'm with KF on this one.

If you're not here to talk about Wimbledon, fvck off. Simple.

was talking about tennis yesterday so if you dont like my and leicesterpool opinion go **** off on a proper tennis forum and stop writing your drival on here

[Facecloth]

Wtf

 

Mens tennis has moved away from serve and volley to being mainly a baseline game now.

 

Look at the top 5, Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Nadal and Ferrer - all baseliners.

 

The courts at Wimbledon are slower than they have ever been. I can't remember the last genuine serve volleyer who won a tournament.

he's got to be a troll. If he's not he's just another on of those people who don't really watch or care about something, but have strong opinions on it. Seem to be a lot of them around these days.

The shock that was emitting from Wimbledon when Stahovsky knocked Federer out shows people how little serve and volley is used, there was nearly as much shock that Stahovsky almost exclusively serve-volleyed as there was that he'd actually won.

[buzzy]

he's got to be a troll. If he's not he's just another on of those people who don't really watch or care about something, but have strong opinions on it. Seem to be a lot of them around these days.

The shock that was emitting from Wimbledon when Stahovsky knocked Federer out shows people how little serve and volley is used, there was nearly as much shock that Stahovsky almost exclusively serve-volleyed as there was that he'd actually won.

just as i said yesterday when people have a different opinioin to you you get called names{troll}.so you really need to grow up and stop  getting abusive . oh by the way ive read your thread and you offer nothing at all what a waste of time and effort on your part

[Facecloth]

just as i said yesterday when people have a different opinioin to you you get called names{troll}.so you really need to grow up and stop  getting abusive . oh by the way ive read your thread and you offer nothing at all what a waste of time and effort on your part

You've been nothing but abusive! Just because you're not calling names, doesn't mean saying things like "Shame on you" isn't abusive. And for you! You! Of all people to tell someone they offer nothing to a thread is a ****ing cheek! This forum has many differing opinions on almost every subject, it's people like you who can't put it across in anything other than a derogatory and confrontational manner that get stick back and ruin it for others. May I remind you that the stick you've received in this thread all started because you practically told off all the people who didn't follow you line on hating Murray!

[Guest MattP]

just as i said yesterday when people have a different opinioin to you you get called names{troll}.so you really need to grow up and stop  getting abusive . oh by the way ive read your thread and you offer nothing at all what a waste of time and effort on your part

 

Saying Men's Tennis has "just become serve and volley" isn't an opinion. It's a stupid statement that is completely incorrect.

 

It would be along the lines of claiming you didn't watch Barcelona under Guardiola because of the long ball game they played or saying you hated watching Mike Tyson box as he couldn't punch.

[HEGGSY]

was talking about tennis yesterday so if you dont like my and leicesterpool opinion go **** off on a proper tennis forum and stop writing your drival on here

Drivel*

I'm writing drivel? lol

Kettle. Pot. Black.