Tennis

[purpleronnie]

Its funny after all the 'shocks' the final is between number 1 & 2 seeds.

 

Hope its a cracker with murray prevailing.

[kingfox]

Raonic will never be a top player fact again another one of those without anything other than power, Dimitrov has a lot to his game and is even good coming forward he will be awesome, paire will be a journeyman at best, Tomic has all the shots just not the right attitude, Goffin... nuff said

Sorry I just don't go with the press or commentators, a big serve and forehand and all of a sudden your a future slam winner

 

A big serve and forehand.

 

He is much more than that, and you know it.

 

His touch is quality, his drop shot capabilities are just as much a weapon as his forehand.

 

You seen the amount of drop shot winners, he hit today. 

[Facecloth]

A big serve and forehand.

 

He is much more than that, and you know it.

 

His touch is quality, his drop shot capabilities are just as much a weapon as his forehand.

 

You seen the amount of drop shot winners, he hit today.

Seriously, stop going on about the drop shot, it's a good shot to use on occasions but he overuses it. It's the last resort of a player devoid of other ideas and should be used every so often to throw a player off, not every other point.

By the way I play a bit of tennis and I have a fantastic drop shot, it's really not a hard shot to play, especially a top 30 player.

[shearfox]

A big serve and forehand.

He is much more than that, and you know it.

His touch is quality, his drop shot capabilities are just as much a weapon as his forehand.

You seen the amount of drop shot winners, he hit today.

I do know but I was saying that in general. He has a great feel but still poor at the net and gets passed a lot when coming forward. Unfortunately his height is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage, players like Murray can dictate and naturalise their game. He doesn't have any agility which in today's game for a champion is a most, He isn't smart just smug with his shots, thinks he has got it already that is why he may not improve.

[kingfox]

Seriously, stop going on about the drop shot, it's a good shot to use on occasions but he overuses it. It's the last resort of a player devoid of other ideas and should be used every so often to throw a player off, not every other point.

By the way I play a bit of tennis and I have a fantastic drop shot, it's really not a hard shot to play, especially a top 30 player.

 

   

 

All serve and forehand you guys say, no finesse some of you say.

 

His drop shot skill is finesse.

 

Why can't I mention his touch, when he isn't all serve and booming forehand. 

[shearfox]

All serve and forehand you guys say, no finesse some of you say.

His drop shot skill is finesse.

Why can't I mention his touch, when he isn't all serve and booming forehand.

He has a wonderful touch no one can deny that, he deguises the drop shot very well one of if not the best at it...

[Facecloth]

   

 

All serve and forehand you guys say, no finesse some of you say.

 

His drop shot skill is finesse.

 

Why can't I mention his touch, when he isn't all serve and booming forehand.

I actually already said.

Can't say I've seen much of Janowicz before this tournament but how people can get excited about him is beyond me. Kingfox's talks like he's the best thing since sliced bread. It's just big serve, couple of powerfully hit shots and it end of point either way. If that fails he tries a drop shot. No variation, no invention in his game, just raw power, and a drop shot. Boring to watch in my opinion, and will only get him so far,

See I didn't deny his drop shot, but as I said he just overuses it, it's his only other plan to booming it. Fantastic touch is picking up a low volley and getting it over the net and across the court, or deftly taking all the pace off an opponants shot to dink it over the net almost stoping it dead, it's not playing a drop shot every other point because you can't blast you opponant off court.

[kingfox]

He has a wonderful touch no one can deny that, he deguises the drop shot very well one of if not the best at it...

 

Facecloth said I'm not allowed to mention his touch.

 

All these hard hitting players, how many do you see back up their hard hitting capabilities with good touch, rarely many.

 

But Janowicz can do both, which surely makes him slightly better than the rest.

 

I've seen him play far better than he was today, the occasion and crowd got to him, too many unforced errors and DF's. 

[kingfox]

I actually already said.

See I didn't deny his drop shot, but as I said he just overuses it, it's his only other plan to booming it. Fantastic touch is picking up a low volley and getting it over the net and across the court, or deftly taking all the pace off an opponants shot to dink it over the net almost stoping it dead, it's not playing a drop shot every other point because you can't blast you opponant off court.

 

Didn't see that message.

 

I've seen him pick up low volleys, he has superb hand skills. 

[shearfox]

I actually already said.

See I didn't deny his drop shot, but as I said he just overuses it, it's his only other plan to booming it. Fantastic touch is picking up a low volley and getting it over the net and across the court, or deftly taking all the pace off an opponants shot to dink it over the net almost stoping it dead, it's not playing a drop shot every other point because you can't blast you opponant off court.

I agree there, but his disguise is unbelievable but yes in general he couldn't volley off his laces like the top players to save his life. That is more down to his height and foot placement rather than touch though Edited 5 July 2013 by shearfox

[Facecloth]

Facecloth said I'm not allowed to mention his touch.

 

All these hard hitting players, how many do you see back up their hard hitting capabilities with good touch, rarely many.

 

But Janowicz can do both, which surely makes him slightly better than the rest.

 

I've seen him play far better than he was today, the occasion and crowd got to him, too many unforced errors and DF's.

I didn't say that you fool, but you just keep going on about his drop shot like he invented it. He good at it yes, but it's not the best weapon any player. Good players use it every so often to mix things up, average players try it every other point because they have no other ideas of what to do. Janowicz uses it almost every other point.

[kingfox]

I didn't say that you fool, but you just keep going on about his drop shot like he invented it. He good at it yes, but it's not the best weapon any player. Good players use it every so often to mix things up, average players try it every other point because they have no other ideas of what to do. Janowicz uses it almost every other point.

 

He was running out of ideas, in my opinion, the occasion got to him, as did the crowd. 

 

Janowicz may use it every other point, but against a lot of players it works, it's not going to work everytime, but it can be classed as one of his major weapons.

 

He is capable of a lot of things, he is not all serve and forehand like some have been saying. 

[Facecloth]

He was running out of ideas, in my opinion, the occasion got to him, as did the crowd. 

 

Janowicz may use it every other point, but against a lot of players it works, it's not going to work everytime, but it can be classed as one of his major weapons.

 

He is capable of a lot of things, he is not all serve and forehand like some have been saying.

It's never going to work if you use it every other point, that's my point. He needs to add variation into his game. The reason Murray eventually beat him in the final set and a half with comparative ease is because if you know you're either going to get a booming forehand, a sliced back handout a drop shot, you're ready for it. The likes of Murray, Djokovic etc cover the court so well once they have the measure of what you're likely to do they'll pick up your shots 90% of the time.

As people have mention comparing Murray at the same age, it's not just about titles won, it's about comparative ability. Murray was a drop shot merchant when he was scrawny 18 year old, but he already had more to his game in general the Janowicz has now. By 22 he'd grown into twice the player Janowicz is at the same age. The reason people have pulled out names Dimitrov etc as likely to go further is that despite the fact that right now they are ranked lower, they are more likely to become more complete players. They have more potential in every aspect of their game. A big serve might be getting Janowicz better results than someone like Dimitrov right now, but in the grand scheme of things Dimitrov will become a better all round player and most likely archive more.

[kingfox]

It's never going to work if you use it every other point, that's my point. He needs to add variation into his game. The reason Murray eventually beat him in the final set and a half with comparative ease is because if you know you're either going to get a booming forehand, a sliced back handout a drop shot, you're ready for it. The likes of Murray, Djokovic etc cover the court so well once they have the measure of what you're likely to do they'll pick up your shots 90% of the time.

As people have mention comparing Murray at the same age, it's not just about titles won, it's about comparative ability. Murray was a drop shot merchant when he was scrawny 18 year old, but he already had more to his game in general the Janowicz has now. By 22 he'd grown into twice the player Janowicz is at the same age. The reason people have pulled out names Dimitrov etc as likely to go further is that despite the fact that right now they are ranked lower, they are more likely to become more complete players. They have more potential in every aspect of their game. A big serve might be getting Janowicz better results than someone like Dimitrov right now, but in the grand scheme of things Dimitrov will become a better all round player and most likely archive more.

 

Key word variation, he has it. He has the serve, he has the booming forehand and backhand, good touch and good at drop shots, that is classed as variety. If he was all serve and forehand then yes, he doesn't have the variety, but he isn't all about that, he is capable of doing more mate, therefore he has variation. Murray and Djokovic have the speed, and will get to some impossible shots, Djokovic did it against Del Potro and Murray did it against Janowicz. Janowicz from the baseline will make his opponent run, then as they are so far off, and he is confident in drop shots, he will use it, and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't, but how many big hitters use that tactic not many. 

 

You were getting players before who by now were winning Grand Slams, or turning into good players like Murray. Nowadays you don't see that, nobody has come through and said "Yes I am the next big thing, and I'm here to stay". Raonic, Dimitrov, Janowicz, Tomic, Goffin oh and Nishikori a name I haven't mentioned yet, these are meant to be the next big things, but as Tennis is in a much harder era it seems, it's been hard for these players to stamp their authority properly. Janowicz is only the real one who has made some sort of headway so far, by reaching a Grand Slam semi final, the others haven't yet, probably Tomic coming the closest. 

Edited 5 July 2013 by kingfox

[wurmer]

Don't particularly like the Scot - but he's made it on merit, he's been resilient and I actually hope he wins it.

[Charnwood Norris]

I will be gutted if Murray doesn't win it this year.    Its his best chance I think, not many players improve past age 26/27.

 

Next year, I think we know Federer is past his sell by date, Nadal is still young enough to get back to his best.

[Grewks]

I will be gutted if Murray doesn't win it this year.    Its his best chance I think, not many players improve past age 26/27.

 

Next year, I think we know Federer is past his sell by date, Nadal is still young enough to get back to his best.

 

 

Federer is done, and on Nadal's recent form, it might not be long before the injuries cause him issues.

 

 

 

Djokovic and Murray will be the new Federer and Nadal rivalry. With the Serbian winning the majority.

[shearfox]

How the hell I'm I wrong, 22 aces and only 3 double faults that day, and probably tones of winners and less unforced errors. And his draw was much harder than his Wimbledon draw. Jerzy only had to play 2 players ranked in the top 32 at this Wimbledon, Almagro and Murray, in Paris he had to play Kohlschreiber, Cilic, Tipsarevic, Murray and Simon all of which were ranked in the top 32, and he didn't just beat them, he kicked their arse.

Your wrong

[shearfox]

Key word variation, he has it. He has the serve, he has the booming forehand and backhand, good touch and good at drop shots, that is classed as variety. If he was all serve and forehand then yes, he doesn't have the variety, but he isn't all about that, he is capable of doing more mate, therefore he has variation. Murray and Djokovic have the speed, and will get to some impossible shots, Djokovic did it against Del Potro and Murray did it against Janowicz. Janowicz from the baseline will make his opponent run, then as they are so far off, and he is confident in drop shots, he will use it, and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't, but how many big hitters use that tactic not many.

You were getting players before who by now were winning Grand Slams, or turning into good players like Murray. Nowadays you don't see that, nobody has come through and said "Yes I am the next big thing, and I'm here to stay". Raonic, Dimitrov, Janowicz, Tomic, Goffin oh and Nishikori a name I haven't mentioned yet, these are meant to be the next big things, but as Tennis is in a much harder era it seems, it's been hard for these players to stamp their authority properly. Janowicz is only the real one who has made some sort of headway so far, by reaching a Grand Slam semi final, the others haven't yet, probably Tomic coming the closest.

He will maintain his record of no ATP tour victories...

[Facecloth]

Key word variation, he has it. He has the serve, he has the booming forehand and backhand, good touch and good at drop shots, that is classed as variety. If he was all serve and forehand then yes, he doesn't have the variety, but he isn't all about that, he is capable of doing more mate, therefore he has variation. Murray and Djokovic have the speed, and will get to some impossible shots, Djokovic did it against Del Potro and Murray did it against Janowicz. Janowicz from the baseline will make his opponent run, then as they are so far off, and he is confident in drop shots, he will use it, and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't, but how many big hitters use that tactic not many.

You were getting players before who by now were winning Grand Slams, or turning into good players like Murray. Nowadays you don't see that, nobody has come through and said "Yes I am the next big thing, and I'm here to stay". Raonic, Dimitrov, Janowicz, Tomic, Goffin oh and Nishikori a name I haven't mentioned yet, these are meant to be the next big things, but as Tennis is in a much harder era it seems, it's been hard for these players to stamp their authority properly. Janowicz is only the real one who has made some sort of headway so far, by reaching a Grand Slam semi final, the others haven't yet, probably Tomic coming the closest.

Well I think you getting confused as to what variety is. Everyone has a forehand and backhand, it would be very difficult to be a pro tennis player without those. It's what he does with them. All he can do with the forehand is smash it to the baseline, all he can do on the backhand is slice it. Where's his bending the ball round the opponant down the line? Cross court shots that land on the tramline, midcourt? If you're playing him you know he's going to just hit his forehand hard and to the baseline and his backhand is going to be sliced. It's boring, inventionless tennis. We've already established that bar his drop shot, he can't really volley, his net play is pretty bad at times, so his touch isn't that great.

I'm off out now, so don't have time to get into names etc, but getting to semi of a grand slam can be down to many things and you can't just look at the fact he's done it once and others haven't as proof he's better. Once he starts doing it regularly then maybe you can say, well look Janowicz has made 4 semi finals, Raonic, Tomic etc haven't. Right now he's made one, but he's had a pretty favourable run to that semi, including a retirement, a clay courter and his fellow countryman who's nothing special.

Edited 6 July 2013 by Facecloth

[kingfox]

Good debate last night guys, but shearfox you don't have a flaming clue. 

 

Ladies Final today though of course.

 

So come on Sabine Lisicki 

[shearfox]

Good debate last night guys, but shearfox you don't have a flaming clue.

Ladies Final today though of course.

So come on Sabine Lisicki

I don't have a clue because I don't agree with you haha... Maybe it is you who doesn't have a clue. Merely different opinions, time will tell who is right Edited 6 July 2013 by shearfox

[leicsmac]

I think you've both made good points, now we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Final today on Lisickis racquet, just a question of when her eight-game downer streak will come. Think she'll win it today.

[kingfox]

I don't have a clue because I don't agree with you haha... Maybe it is you who doesn't have a clue. Merely different opinions, time will tell who is right

 

Only if Jerzy beat Ferrer in Paris, then we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

But the fact you are ruling him out entirely is disrespectful, he is only 22 and one of the best youngish talents in Men's Tennis. 

 

Anyway it's Women's finals day, if you don't like Women then come back tomorrow when Murray wins the Men's final. 

[shearfox]

Only if Jerzy beat Ferrer in Paris, then we wouldn't be having this debate.

But the fact you are ruling him out entirely is disrespectful, he is only 22 and one of the best youngish talents in Men's Tennis.

Anyway it's Women's finals day, if you don't like Women then come back tomorrow when Murray wins the Men's final.

Like I said time will tell, well I do watch women's Tennis. Lisicki in straight sets.