Tennis

[Haydos]

C'maaaan Rog!

[ScouseFox]

Horrific time for rain, as Nadal was serving for the set. Fed stayed cool though, broke and now Nadal's serving to stay in the set.

[ScouseFox]

What a tie break from Rafa, superb stuff. That point for 6-2 with the backhand pass off Fed's overhead was outta this world.

[Haydos]

Gotta be match now. Ridiculous effort to win from here. He's such a clingy ****er on key points, some great winners as well.

[ScouseFox]

Takes the break in the third set, Rafa now serving for 5-2, surely it's all over?

[ScouseFox]

Maybe not, Nadal broken to love, back on serve in the third.

[ScouseFox]

Serving for the title at 5-1 in the 4th.

Go'ed Rafa.

[Narborough_fox]

Nadal wins in 4, fantastic match. Rafa equals recrord 6 French Open titles.

[ScouseFox]

King of clay.

[AoWW]

Pleased Nadal won.

[leicesterisme]

Seeing them two play today and then there's Djokovic on fire aswell, I really cant see Andy Murray ever winning a grand slam, he's good against weaker players as soon as he gets to the elite players he gets destroyed every single time and it looks like he always will.

Edited 5 June 2011 by leicesterisme

[shen]

Seeing them two play today and then there's Djokovic on fire aswell, I really cant see Andy Murray ever winning a grand slam, he's good against weaker players as soon as he gets to the elite players he gets destroyed every single time and it looks like he always will.

No he doesn't. He might not be as awesome as those three, but to say he's never going to win a Grand Slam is ridiculous, especially when he's already appeared in three finals.

[Bert]

No he doesn't. He might not be as awesome as those three, but to say he's never going to win a Grand Slam is ridiculous, especially when he's already appeared in three finals.

No-one remembers the losers though. The others have all appeared in more finals and won more than him.

[StanSP]

Nadal

Since I first saw him, before he went on those epic run of Wimbledon finals against Federer, I was a fan and always admired him.

My favourite match of his though is his first Wimbledon triumph over Federer in 2008. Being in Spain at the time probably added to the occasion! Such an epic match though.

[shen]

No-one remembers the losers though. The others have all appeared in more finals and won more than him.

They're better than him, no doubt. But two of them are arguably the best in the history of the sport and the third has been in unreal form this year. Murray has enough qualities to win a Slam. He's done it before (beating Nadal and Fed to win tournaments) and he has a positive head to head record against the latter. "As soon as he gets to the elite players he gets destroyed every single time and it looks like he always will." Seems wildly over the top here.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Andy Murray is like Tim Henman mentally fragile against the very top players late in tournaments

[shen]

Andy Murray is like Tim Henman mentally fragile against the very top players late in tournaments

Murray is nothing like Henman. He's already won five more titles than Henman did in his whole career, not to mention six Masters titles to Henman's one and he's still only 24. He's reached three slam finals and admittedly been outplayed in all of them, but

2008: Final win over Djokovic in Cincinatti Masters, SF win over Nadal to reach US Open Final, SF win over Federer in Madrid Masters, QF win over Djokovic in Canada Masters

2009: Final win over Nadal in Rotterdam, Final win over Djokovic in Miami Masters, SF wins over Federer in Doha and Indian Wells

2010: Final wins over Federer in China Masters and Canada Masters, SF win over Nadal in same Canada masters, QF win over Nadal at Australian Open

suggests he can defeat these guys on his day.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Murray is nothing like Henman. He's already won five more titles than Henman did in his whole career, not to mention six Masters titles to Henman's one and he's still only 24. He's reached three slam finals and admittedly been outplayed in all of them, but

2008: Final win over Djokovic in Cincinatti Masters, SF win over Nadal to reach US Open Final, SF win over Federer in Madrid Masters, QF win over Djokovic in Canada Masters

2009: Final win over Nadal in Rotterdam, Final win over Djokovic in Miami Masters, SF wins over Federer in Doha and Indian Wells

2010: Final wins over Federer in China Masters and Canada Masters, SF win over Nadal in same Canada masters, QF win over Nadal at Australian Open

suggests he can defeat these guys on his day.

It's all about Grand Slams and the facts don't lie

[shen]

It's all about Grand Slams and the facts don't lie

He's still just 24 and only been professional on the tour for five years, he's shown he can beat them in the next biggest thing, and he's twice knocked out Nadal in slams. Based on this, why would anyone say that he'll never win a slam or even that he's "like Tim Henman"? You don't have to like the guy or even his playing style, but at least acknowledge he's a brilliant player and twice the player Henman ever was.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

He's still just 24 and only been professional on the tour for five years, he's shown he can beat them in the next biggest thing, and he's twice knocked out Nadal in slams. Based on this, why would anyone say that he'll never win a slam or even that he's "like Tim Henman"? You don't have to like the guy or even his playing style, but at least acknowledge he's a brilliant player and twice the player Henman ever was.

Never said Henman was better than Murray, just Murrays performances in the last week of a grand slam to Henmans. They both couldn't cope with the pressure on the big stage, it's got nothing to do with ability. Just there Similar failures in grand slams.

[martyn]

Andy Murray is a better player than Henman ever was, it's a lazy lazy comparison. It is ridiculous to say he won't win a Grand Slam when he has a realistic chance for the next 3-4 years (during which time Federer and Nadal's level will have dropped).

And to the guy who said he gets destroyed by elite players "every time", he has a winning record against Federer (8-6) and has beaten Nadal late in 2 grand slams. In how many other blue riband sports does Britain have the 4th best player in the world? Murray (and Henman to that end) get far too much stick, generally from those who only believe tennis to exist for 2 weeks of the year on a grass court.

Edited 6 June 2011 by martyn

[martyn]

Never said Henman was better than Murray, just Murrays performances in the last week of a grand slam to Henmans. They both couldn't cope with the pressure on the big stage, it's got nothing to do with ability. Just there Similar failures in grand slams.

I disagree. In his 3 slam finals, only the 2010 Aussie Final against Federer do I feel Murray blew a real chance.

In 2008 it was his first final against a rampant Federer (compare Federer's level in that Final to when he played Del Potro in 2009, completely different) and this year at the Aussie Open he came up against Djokovic, playing a level of tennis I can't remember anyone producing since Federer circa 2004-2007.

Murray is just a slight rung below Fed, Nadal and Djokovic in terms of quality. His best chance of a Slam is against Nadal in a hard court final imo.

[FoxyPV]

Nadal is unstoppable on clay

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I disagree. In his 3 slam finals, only the 2010 Aussie Final against Federer do I feel Murray blew a real chance.

In 2008 it was his first final against a rampant Federer (compare Federer's level in that Final to when he played Del Potro in 2009, completely different) and this year at the Aussie Open he came up against Djokovic, playing a level of tennis I can't remember anyone producing since Federer circa 2004-2007.

Murray is just a slight rung below Fed, Nadal and Djokovic in terms of quality. His best chance of a Slam is against Nadal in a hard court final imo.

Re-read what i wrote, in the final week not just the finals. Last 3 Wimbeldons QF, SF, SF. Last 3 French QF, 4R, SF. Last 3 Aus 4R, F, F. Last 3 Us Open F, 4R, 3R. Doesn't take a genious to figure out he has all the talent in the world but there is something wrong with him when it comes to the business end of Grand Slams. Surely there must be a question on hes ability to handle pressure, as Shen pointed out he has beaten the best players before.

The comparrison i waas making with Henman was the fact Henman made 8 quater finals at Wimbeldon and still failed to make a final let alone win one.

Edited 6 June 2011 by SOCCERROO FOX

[shen]

Never said Henman was better than Murray, just Murrays performances in the last week of a grand slam to Henmans. They both couldn't cope with the pressure on the big stage, it's got nothing to do with ability. Just there Similar failures in grand slams.

I just think it's premature to compare Murray's and Henman's failures in slams. Murray's reached at least the QF in eight out of the last 14 slams. Wimbledon apart, Henman only ever got past the fourth round on three occasions. Already at this stage in Murray's career, he's outshone Henman's slam stats.

I also think it's harsh claiming that Murray has 'failed' in slams. Nadal is the best clay court player that's ever lived and has since shown he can reproduce that form on all other surfaces, and Federer's probably the best player of all time. Since 2005 (when Murray first appeared on the Tour) only four slam titles out of a possible 26 have NOT ended up in the hands of Nadal or Federer (Safiin in Aus Open 2005, Djokovic in Aus Open 2008 & 2011 and Del Potro in US Open 2009). I'm sure there's never been this kind of dominance over such a long period of time. Losing to these gentlemen is not exactly a 'failure'. In fact, the only reasons I think people are belittling Murray is because of his personality and the stunning form of Djokovic this year that has eclipsed everyone.

Edited 6 June 2011 by shen