Another Top 100 Games of all time list!

[Phube]

Games Radar's Top 100

If you read the intro, they've at least explained their 'best' criteria!

Let the discussion begin!

[zubi]

Shenmue at 93?!?!

I refuse to take this list seriously!

[coale39]

Agree with No 1! Cant wait for No 2!

[Finnegan]

I don't agree with their including Twilight Princess instead of Ocarina. They cite graphics as a reason but I don't really think the graphics are that significant and I don't think Ocarina has aged badly.

It's not because Ocarina came first or because it was from my childhood, it's just that I genuinely found it much more gripping and much more moving at the time.

While I don't play it (though I've given it a shot and it wasn't especially my "thing") I think World of Warcraft would be higher on the list if the people who write lists like this didn't feel the pressure of some sort of anti-MMO stigma.

At the end of the day, it's got to be one of the greatest - if not THE greatest - games of all time. If you're not looking for "groundbreaking," "definitive," or "important" then surely one of the major ways to truly decide 'best' is how the succeeded in their aim - ie, appealing to the masses. Ten million players all forking out a tenner a month to play? I'd call that pretty successful.

Scary, even, really.

Also, :

f you’re good enough, you can actually make a damn good living playing StarCraft II. With a salary nearing $400,000 from sponsorships and winnings, Lim Yo-Hwan is one of the highest paid pro-gamers in history – and he did it by mastering StarCraft II, the best real-time strategy game ever made.

I've actually watched Korean TV in a Hong Kong hotel and you can actually watch people playing StarCraft on the telly with proper sports-style commentary and analysis, it's hilarious.

Oh and last two points, firstly. Mass Effect and Fallout 2 make the list but Baldur's Gate does not!? Scandal! Clear nerd / geek prejudice! Secondly, PC games in general a bit under represented - felt the Total War series deserved an honorable mention on there somewhere.

[VinceNoir]

How Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are above Ocarina is beyond me. Ocarina of Time was a groundbreaking experience in gaming, and had an awesome fookin story too! Definitely getting a 3DS and OoT when it comes out.

[Finnegan]

Oh, and, no Champ Man!? COME ON!

[lavrentis]

Can't really take these lists seriously, although I'm glad Okami is in the list.

As for Shenmue at 93

[Salieri]

Where is Rick Dangerous? <_<

And Toejam and Earl.

Flashback? Quality.

[Legend_in_blue]

This is a lot of effort just to promote Portal 2 and its imminent release. Why go to the trouble of putting a pathetic attempt of the "top 100 games of all time" just to do that?

The list is full of inconsistencies.

Star Wars KOTOR at 75?!?! Seriously? FFX at 60? The list cannot be taken seriously beyond this point.

And Red Dead Redemption at 15? This is an overrated game. I still haven't finished it and am not compelled to do so. I've had enough of riding across the landscape just to pick off a guy with one head shot every 30 minutes. It's almost as bad as Far Cry 2.

Any why didn't MGS4 and Dead Space 2 make the list?

[Phube]

I don't agree with their including Twilight Princess instead of Ocarina. They cite graphics as a reason but I don't really think the graphics are that significant and I don't think Ocarina has aged badly.

It's not because Ocarina came first or because it was from my childhood, it's just that I genuinely found it much more gripping and much more moving at the time.

This is where I will agree and disagree with you. Yes I also think OoT has a better story. But I only played it on my GameCube (~2004 ish) so I have an adult head on this. The controls were AWFUL I can't count the number of times it took me just to get on a ladder! The interface really hasn't aged well at all.

EDIT: Plus it's true Midna is a much better character than Navi!

[breadandcheese]

Why is Goldeneye not on this list? Best game ever.

[VinceNoir]

Why is Goldeneye not on this list? Best game ever.

Brilliant game. Simple, yet so amazingly good. I loved the mines flying out of the chest! Oh, N64 you beauty!

[Finnegan]

This is where I will agree and disagree with you. Yes I also think OoT has a better story. But I only played it on my GameCube (~2004 ish) so I have an adult head on this. The controls were AWFUL I can't count the number of times it took me just to get on a ladder! The interface really hasn't aged well at all.

EDIT: Plus it's true Midna is a much better character than Navi!

I played it as a kid on the N64 and didn't struggle at all, might say more about you than the controls!

I actually think it was a pretty good interface, simple A and B use combined with the C-pad. I liked it.

PS, this was the tits:

[zubi]

This is a lot of effort just to promote Portal 2 and its imminent release. Why go to the trouble of putting a pathetic attempt of the "top 100 games of all time" just to do that?

The list is full of inconsistencies.

Star Wars KOTOR at 75?!?! Seriously? FFX at 60? The list cannot be taken seriously beyond this point.

And Red Dead Redemption at 15? This is an overrated game. I still haven't finished it and am not compelled to do so. I've had enough of riding across the landscape just to pick off a guy with one head shot every 30 minutes. It's almost as bad as Far Cry 2.

Any why didn't MGS4 and Dead Space 2 make the list?

Yes! Finally someone who agrees it's overrated!

[shen]

Touching description of Secret of Mana (#63) there. Funny how you can have emotional attachment to a game which goes beyond nostalgia as well. Overall I guess there's a lot of bias towards FPS/RPGs; apart from Sims/SimCity was there any simulation on that list? No flight, car or sports games. None of the games that really got RTS going (Dune 2, Warcraft 2, C & C) and despite many adventure/point-and-click games they don't even mention the hallmark of the genre, Monkey Island. But fair enough, can't please everyone.

[Trav Le Bleu]

I don't agree with their including Twilight Princess instead of Ocarina. They cite graphics as a reason but I don't really think the graphics are that significant and I don't think Ocarina has aged badly.

You're right.

Graphics should be taken as how they looked at the time of release, of course old games are going to look ropey compared to modern stuff.

[sdb]

Very geeky list, unsurprisingly I suppose. No footie games?

[Trav Le Bleu]

Finally looked through and sad to see the only 8bit gen representation was Dizzy. For crying out loud, where is Elite or Lords of Midnight? Also FFX but no FF VII? And Oblivion better than Morrowind? Graphically maybe, but in terms of gameplay, size of the adventure and atmosphere, no, no, no. The same applies to Bioshock vs Deus Ex (and shockingly, no System Shock 2, which trumps them both!)

In terms of multiplayer fun, surely Mariokart or Micro Machines should have been there (the original versions).

And Tetris... would anyone play that now if they had an option? It bores me to tears quickly - at the start it is too slow and you only fail when it gets too fast - the delicate edge where it is just challenging is perhaps 50+ levels in for most.

And Portal is a great game and tons of fun, but far too short to be considered a classic. It's almost a mini game and was made as an after thought accompaniment to HL2.

So basically I didn't see much I agree with.

[Finnegan]

To be fair, read the disclaimer at the start, they're majorly taking in to account games that still stand up today.

And 7 looks complete and total shit by modern standards, I can understand why they went for X. Yeah, yeah, story, characterisation, blah blah blah. But visuals are a massive part of any Final Fantasy and I'm sorry - Cloud and Co' look, today, like pixelated shit.

X had irritating voice actors but it had a great story, good mechanics (I'm sorry, but the Sphere Grid is better than anything from 6, 7, or 8) and even by today's standards it's still incredibly good looking - both in Square's trademark FMVs and in gameplay.

They're also say they're not adding duplicate games unless there's a significant difference so it's not like they're saying that 7 wouldn't make a top 100 independently, they're just saying that they feel X is a better representation for the series in the year 2011. To be honest, I agree.

Oh and Mario Kart is on the list, quite high as well.

I do think Deus Ex was a very surprising absence from the list but I think discrediting Bioshock is unfair, I don't think the two games are that comparable and I think Bioshock will go down as a classic. It's an absolutely incredible piece of art.

As for Tetris, eh, it might not be to your tastes but I don't see how it's really up for that much debate. It's easily a top 10 and is so often overlooked, I'm glad it was included.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Deus Ex is in there, much lower down, but it is essentially the same game mechanics as Bioshock (and System Shock 2), being a FPS in which you can mod your abilities. So using their own rules, both shouldn't be in there?

I always take these things with a pinch of salt - they always favour the most recent releases because they are fresh in the mind. This is true of competions where the competitors are marked by judges. Often the last to go get higher scores.

In fairness most of the people who scored this Top 100 have probably never played an 8-bit game and yes there is a rose-tinted specs aspect - I've played some old Speccy games on an emulator a few years back and thought, "I used to ENJOY this!?"

I also didn't notice the X-COM games represented - criminal! Possibly crippled by the fact that the last few games in the series were indeed naff, but they stand up well against the likes of Fall Out 2.

[Libertine]

FFX is amazing. I love that game so goddamn much. Embarrassingly never played VII though. Naturally I'd put all MGS games in the top 10.

[Trav Le Bleu]

FFX is VERY good, but for me it's kind of on a par with FFVIII.

[Finnegan]

They're not my rules, they're theirs. And they meant different games in the same series (instead of having, you know, sixty eight thousand different FFs in there) don't get included not "games with slightly similar characteristics."

Just because Bioshock is an FPS in which you can buy upgrades for a few weapons and "abilities" doesn't mean it's thus identical to Deus Ex. Bioshock is an epic steam punk horror story, it's nothing like DE at all in content or themes.

[Trav Le Bleu]

IGNPC: Is Bio a true sequel or prequel to System Shock 2, or is it a spiritual successor?

Ken Levine: BioShock has absolutely no relation to the System Shock series in terms of the intellectual property, characters, settings etc. However, it is inspired by the open-ended design principles pioneered by Looking Glass. Irrational is dedicated to maintaining that tradition.

BioShock is also being created by the majority of the team who created System Shock 2 and many of the games which helped inspire it. This group includes me, Jon Chey (project lead), Steve Kimura (Art), Mauricio Tejerina (art), Nate Wells (art), Ian Vogel (design), and Alexx Kay (design). When Looking Glass went out of business (RIP, man, that place rocked the world and never got the credit they deserved), we were able to hire Eric Brosius (sound guru who created the sound for both Shock 2 and the entire Thief series), Dorian Hart (design on Shock 2, Thief and Terra Nova), Shawn Robertson (art), Darren Lafreniere (programming) and Sara Verrilli (design on Thief).

Bioshock Developer Interview

Young whippersnappers dissing my heritage.

System Shock 2 was by far the best of what is essentially a succession of games

[Finnegan]

Young whippersnappers? System Shock 2 isn't exactly some 80s relic.

And I don't know what you're trying to prove with that quote. It isn't the same series, the games were fairly different and were of different generations.

Unlike FF6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 which are basically the same game with different characters or Smash Bros Melee and Brawl or Sonic 1, 2, 3 and CD or ANY of the Pokemon games or whatever else they bunched together as one.