Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Nice Stat.... but does that include cup goals? Good point, it is 1 in 5 goals under Pearson in the Championship. Not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Good point, it is 1 in 5 goals under Pearson in the Championship. Not great. He didn't play 46 games in the championship though? 37 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Please tell me otherwise... Waghorn has had one full season at this level, playing as a striker and starting games regularly. He scored 12 League Goals. Beckford has had one full season at this level, playing as a striker and starting games regularly. He scored 9 League Goals. Waghorn also got more assists than Beckford. Maybe Beckford will prove to be better, but he hasn't yet. I really think that people forget just how good Waghorn was generally and that he did score goals just because he's been lumped in as one of these 'runs around a lot but doesn't score players', it's grossly unfair because not only does he contribute more to the game but he scored more than Beckford when given similar opportunities. Plus he's a lot younger and his wages aren't anything like Beckford's. But you know it isn't popular to rate Waggy and not rate Beckford, so lets just ignore all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Waghorn has had one full season at this level, playing as a striker and starting games regularly. He scored 12 League Goals. Beckford has had one full season at this level, playing as a striker and starting games regularly. He scored 9 League Goals. Waghorn also got more assists than Beckford. Maybe Beckford will prove to be better, but he hasn't yet. I really think that people forget just how good Waghorn was generally and that he did score goals just because he's been lumped in as one of these 'runs around a lot but doesn't score players', it's grossly unfair because not only does he contribute more to the game but he scored more than Beckford when given similar opportunities. Plus he's a lot younger and his wages aren't anything like Beckford's. But you know it isn't popular to rate Waggy and not rate Beckford, so lets just ignore all that. We have a much better team on paper than then, we have goalscorers in many positions, Marshall etc. Also Waghorn was pretty much the main striker then so will obviously score more goals than Beckford who is partnered with the top scorer Nugent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Also Waghorn was pretty much the main striker then so will obviously score more goals than Beckford who is partnered with the top scorer Nugent. Waghorn was our 3rd choice striker. He still featured a lot off the bench and only really got into the team regularly when Fryatt was injured, so don't really get your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Was last season a one off? Last year he scored 1 in 3 2010/11 1 in 4 2009/10 1 in 1.6 2008/09 1 in 1.2 2007/08 1 in 2 The first three seasons were in League One, where he had a phenomenal strike rate. The second two seasons were in the top two divisions. His average strike rate for the last two seasons is 3.5, therefore if he plays all 46 league games, statistically he will score 13 goals. At the risk of opening a can of worms, I am changing my opinions on him a bit. He would have to improve radically to score 25 goals and 13 goals a season is not a great return for his rumoured wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out Foxed Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Also Waghorn was pretty much the main striker then no he wasn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Was last season a one off? Last year he scored 1 in 3 2010/11 1 in 4 2009/10 1 in 1.6 2008/09 1 in 1.2 2007/08 1 in 2 The first three seasons were in League One, where he had a phenomenal strike rate. The second two seasons were in the top two divisions. His average strike rate for the last two seasons is 3.5, therefore if he plays all 46 league games, statistically he will score 13 goals. At the risk of opening a can of worms, I am changing my opinions on him a bit. He would have to improve radically to score 25 goals and 13 goals a season is not a great return for his rumoured wages. Plus cup goals which could factor to almost 20 goal a season which isn't bad considering we have Nugent who I am sure will score somewhere between 15-20 goals and other options we have goals a plenty next season imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Plus cup goals which could factor to almost 20 goal a season Listen to yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 He didn't play 46 games in the championship though? 37 starts. What I was thinking was a good test of Beckford's potential this year might be working out how he did in the Championship last year under Pearson. He scored 8 goals in 37 appearances which is a goal every 4.65 games. That's where 1 in 5 came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Plus cup goals which could factor to almost 20 goal a season which isn't bad considering we have Nugent who I am sure will score somewhere between 15-20 goals and other options we have goals a plenty next season imo. Actually those figures are for total goals in all competitions. If anything it is kind to Beckford to include his cup record in a league prediction when he scored 6 in 5 in the FA Cup last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFox Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 He's at Fosse Park in the Sports Direct shop buying some new nike trainers. Ok this thread is now sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 If your going to judge a player on statistics you need a lot more than just goals scored though. I'm not sure that Becks would do well in pass completion and distances covered etc either though to be fair. I think his record shows no real indication on how well he do next year especially if he is at another club. If he scored 5, 15 or 25 it wouldn't be a massive shock for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 He's at Fosse Park in the Sports Direct shop buying some new nike trainers. Ok this thread is now sorted. Why is he not at Burton? Is he not playing this evening? What time is kick-off? HOW FAR AWAY IS BURTON? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 If your going to judge a player on statistics you need a lot more than just goals scored though. I'm not sure that Becks would do well in pass completion and distances covered etc either though to be fair. I think his record shows no real indication on how well he do next year especially if he is at another club. If he scored 5, 15 or 25 it wouldn't be a massive shock for me. We need him to improve. My gut feeling is that he can improve and if played regularly he might be hitting 20-25 goals. He knows the club now and (fingers crossed) we will have stability with the manager. But...will he get as many games next season as there is more competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 We need him to improve. My gut feeling is that he can improve and if played regularly he might be hitting 20-25 goals. He knows the club now and (fingers crossed) we will have stability with the manager. But...will he get as many games next season as there is more competition? I agree with that, he has something to offer I think. If it is true that he has been told he can leave it may be better that he goes soon though. I don't like giving up on players after one season at the club anymore than I do managers. If he stay fair play and if he goes I will wish him luck (and hope whoever he joins finishes below us). He certainly has not done anything wrong other than play at a lower level than was expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 It's fair to say he didn't have the greatest season last season because we are having this discussion about whether he is worth his wages. We don't question Nugent's wages which are probably similar because his contribution was unquestionable. My feelings are, I would like to see him stay and score the goals to answer the questions. Although I feel he has it within himself to do it, I'm not sure that he will. Therefore, if he went tomorrow, I would be disappointed but not gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 It's fair to say he didn't have the greatest season last season because we are having this discussion about whether he is worth his wages. We don't question Nugent's wages which are probably similar because his contribution was unquestionable. My feelings are, I would like to see him stay and score the goals to answer the questions. Although I feel he has it within himself to do it, I'm not sure that he will. Therefore, if he went tomorrow, I would be disappointed but not gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pub breath Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 When Beckford played for Leeds, we gave him the service that he needs. When you have a player with his pace and finishing ability, you really must develop a team around him. I don't get the feeling that Leicester did this last year, would that be fair? Beckford was red hot for Leeds. Scored for fun and scored goals from nothing. Most Leicester fans seem to appreciate this but some do not quite seem to know what they have in JB. He didn't just excel in L1, he was great when we played teams from higher leagues in the cups too. I know he has 20+ goals a season in him in this league, if he's allowed the games to do it and you feed him properly. I'd love him back here at Leeds, I can't think of a better signing up front to help us progress again (hopefully post-Bates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 When Beckford played for Leeds, we gave him the service that he needs. When you have a player with his pace and finishing ability, you really must develop a team around him. I don't get the feeling that Leicester did this last year, would that be fair? Beckford was red hot for Leeds. Scored for fun and scored goals from nothing. Most Leicester fans seem to appreciate this but some do not quite seem to know what they have in JB. He didn't just excel in L1, he was great when we played teams from higher leagues in the cups too. I know he has 20+ goals a season in him in this league, if he's allowed the games to do it and you feed him properly. While I understand that Beckford can do a very good job in the Championship if a team is built around, I just can't help but feel like we shouldn't be trying to build our squad around one player. When we were in League One we played a system that didn't really focus on one player and we ran away with the League, while you were playing in a way that suited Jermaine, but it took you three years to scrape out of League One by the skin of your teeth with players like Delph, Becchio and Snodgrass, players miles ahead of what we had. Now I don't know if that's a big factor that contributed to your failure to go up earlier, but I don't see why we should alter our style of play to accommodate one player when Nugent himself has proven to be equally as good and fits our current style of play relatively well. The other issue and reason why I'm unsure about us keeping Beckford is his wages. It is quite clear that Beckford is the best paid player at the club, and personally I really don't think that paying someone who was a let down last year more than our other players is a sensible approach. I also don't think that we should be throwing £30,000 a week at a player who is no guarantee of promotion, because if we do keep failing to go up, then there is just no way that we'll be able to support those wages in the long run. Personally I think he'd do well at another Championship club, but it hasn't worked for him here so far, and I can't see it working if we continue to play the way that Nigel Pearson has had success playing here before. I'd be quite happy to see Beckford go to you and I'd wish him well. Similarly if he stays at Leicester I'd support him, I think he could do well for us, but I think it's a big gamble on his wages, when he has never done it in this division, and I certainly don't think we should be neglecting the strengths of other players to accommodate him. I can understand why most of our fans rate him, he is a capable Championship striker, but he has in my opinion done nothing to justify the wages he is on. I also think that our fans are judging him on what he did for you in League One, not what he has done for us, I don't think they'd do that for most of our players, and I think Beckford's reputation is probably higher (unfairly) than it would be if he had done the same for 'little old Leicester' in League One. There are just as capable strikers as Jermaine Beckford who are both cheaper and would fit the style we play better, but I trust NP and if he decides to keep him then I'm sure Beckford will do a good job for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 If he had been here in Sven's first part season then I think he would've done very well. We had a slick, mobile front line and it would've suited him down to the ground. In Sven's second season I think we were more defensive. We played a diamond midfield and therefore had no width. The sexy, fluid football of the previous year was gone. With the signings Pearson has made so far, with the exception of Futacs, I can see Beckford having a better season. The likes of Marshall, Vardy and Knockaert will surely stretch a defence to allow Beckford to run into space? That's if Beckford is in the starting lineup of course. My point being, I think it was Pearson making the best of Sven's signings rather than Pearson's preferred style of football that didn't suit Beckford. Let's hope for better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetintedspecs Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 IMO the only time Beckford has produced anything like the goalscoring form that matches his over inflated reputation and salary was in the third tier of English football. If he stays and proves me wrong I will hold my hands up publically on here.As a supporter of our great club I will also be delighted if he stays and bangs em in though unfortunately on both counts I don't believe it will be the case.I will also not shed a tear if he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 He's not proven there but 8 goals in his first season in the top flight is a decent effort to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 And that one against Chelsea was a great goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Waghorn was our 3rd choice striker. He still featured a lot off the bench and only really got into the team regularly when Fryatt was injured, so don't really get your point. Think he had 15 sub appearances before he started a game for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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