Safe Standing - Support the Early Day motion

[flowwolf]

I understand what your saying flow concerning the powers that be changing their minds, thats a huge hurdle, why rock the boat? We have the richest and most popular league in the world so it would take guts for them to change when they dont have to.

Bottom like is though its only the top 2 divisions that have to have all seater, they are happy for other clubs to have terraces so its not that much of a step to small safe standing areas for the top 2 divisions.

The success in switzerland, austria, sweden & germany and others show it is safe and the fact scotland is open to the safe standing model could also apply pressure. Add to that many clubs publically coming out and saying they are in favour can only be a good thing and its up to the fans to keep the pressure on, nothing will change if nobody tries.

Well I agree with you up to a point. The trouble is both of the worlds biggest loss of lives involving football were caused by the fans and attributed to English fans in particular. Many things have to be taken in to concideration , crowd size , temperment of the fans and past history. When you equate them to our fans it's no wonder those in power are saying it's a no no to standing in our top two leagues.

As I have already said it would make no difference to the ongoing slump in attendances to have standing it would solve nothing . the realissues facing football in this country go way beyond a few standing areas and the F.A and the clubs know that.

[Bilo]

Buy yourself a dictionary it would help.

[Bilo]

Well I agree with you up to a point. The trouble is both of the worlds biggest loss of lives involving football were caused by the fans and attributed to English fans in particular. Many things have to be taken in to concideration , crowd size , temperment of the fans and past history. When you equate them to our fans it's no wonder those in power are saying it's a no no to standing in our top two leagues.

As I have already said it would make no difference to the ongoing slump in attendances to have standing it would solve nothing . the realissues facing football in this country go way beyond a few standing areas and the F.A and the clubs know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Lima_football_riot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accra_Sports_Stadium_disaster

Wrong.

Next.

[flowwolf]

Perhaps your most embarrassing post yet.

1) If you seriously think seats could stop the hooligans charging at the Juve fans that day then you are incredibly naive. Just would have given them a few more weapons to charge with.

2) It has been said a million times that the only reason they have drop down seats is because under current UEFA rules, all international matches (European or national teams) must take place in all seater stadiums. As we are nowhere near Europe, it is unlikely that we'll ever see the seats dropped. As a fan, you will have no option to drop the seat down, because it is locked safely into place. Comprende?

That being the case why are the likes of you bothering to defend something that even UEFA rules are saying is not going to happen--Comprende ?

If there had been something in place at Hysel to at least slow down the advancing Liverpool fans the Italian fans would have been able to get away from that wall before it was pushed on to them , look at the footage.

[flowwolf]

Kitchandro and Bilo nailing it as per.

The revenue thing is such an easy win for clubs though. Even with the roughest of calculations - see below - it's clear that clubs can both lower prices for some fans and derive more revenue - win-win!

Some assumptions for the calculation below:

1) The Kop has 8,000 seats. Rip out the lower 4,000 of these and replace with space for 6,000 fans. This figure could in fact be higher but I wanted to account for some of the lost seats in the middle to ensure those sitting above can see.

2) Let's take an average price for the Kop of £25 - no idea what it is in practice but it seems a sensible number to take. Let's say standing places were £20 - personally think it's too high but I'm thinking with a LCFC hat on here. The club could even spin this a good way - PR the hell out of the cheaper standing places and up the seats slightly to compensate.

3) I have no idea what the actual capacity utilisation of the Kop is at the moment but I'd estimate 70%. Those not in the Kop could probably get a little closer with an estimate. It's inconceivable that 6,000 standing places wouldn't be filled if there are cheaper prices on offer. In addition, the remaining 4,000 seats in the Kop would probably see a boost in utilisation with more people moving there for the atmosphere.

Yes there are the fixed costs of implementation - actual rail seats, more toilets, food stalls, structural reinforcement required etc - and the variable overheads including more stewards, but over time these will be more than recouped.

Obviously a lot of these people will be season ticket holders but the general principles remain the same.

Totall shite :D have you seen our average crowds over the past ten seasons ? and you think having a standing area will get more in . :rolleyes:

Edited 11 April 2013 by flowwolf

[Harry - LCFC]

Right then ask yourself this why do the so called new standing barriers have the capacity to drop down as seats ? I will tell you why it is so the they can be dropped down at any given point and used as barriers to stop people running allong the whole length of the stand and meeting up in the aisles. All they have to do is make the last eight seats drop down and the whole row now has to slow down and and circumnavigate them which makes impulse charging horizontally impossible at speed.

Come on then you enlightened ones YOU tell me why the standing sections in this brave new world have the capacity to have the seats unbolted and and laid flat.

You're just proving to everyone that you don't know much about this issue. You've already been corrected on this post once as you have on many others. As a result, people are getting very frustrated at constantly having to explain why you're wrong.

You're welcome to your opinion, I don't criticise you too much for that (although I do disagree with you), but it would help you form your view on the matter if you knew more about it. This isn't so much a moan more of a little pointer in the right direction.

[C-man]

Totall shite :D have you seen our average crowds over the past ten seasons ? and you think having a standing area will get more in . :rolleyes:

Erm, yes. Cheaper prices means more through the gate.

As for what UEFA stipulate, I could not care less. Neither do clubs or authorities in half a dozen other European countries and neither will our clubs if it there is a way to comply with both local and international rules whilst maximising revenue.

[flowwolf]

Erm, yes. Cheaper prices means more through the gate.

As for what UEFA stipulate, I could not care less. Neither do clubs or authorities in half a dozen other European countries and neither will our clubs if it there is a way to comply with both local and international rules whilst maximising revenue.

Dont think so. They keep trying to get people in with cheaper tickets on a regular basis , it's not about sitting or standing it's about the standard of football.

[1964FOX]

Oh Flowy your WUMery is getting some mileage out of this thread old boy, clearly you know the argument and keep coming up with different angles to try and be contrary to it. well done old chap.

[Kitchandro]

To quote Joe Pesci, 'I'm finished with this guy'.

[Harry - LCFC]

@The_FSF Pompey back FSF Safe Standing Campaign | Football Supporters' Federation http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/pompey-back-fsf-safe-standing-campaign â€¦

 

Well done Portsmouth, a club I certainly expected to back this campaign eventually.

[Voll Blau]

Yep, unsurprising given who's in charge now.

 

Hopefully we'll be in the same situation one day (though hopefully not because facing extinction pre-empted it).

[purpleronnie]

In a way Yeovil winning promotion isnt a great thing for safe standing as there might be another ground which will lose its terraces in the next few years.

[Bilo]

Only if they manage to stay up for three seasons.

 

A big ask.

[1964FOX]

In a way Yeovil winning promotion isnt a great thing for safe standing as there might be another ground which will lose its terraces in the next few years.

Their ground would be much better suited to having safe standing with it being a modern terrace.

[LutterworthLCFC]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/exclusive-championship-clubs-set-to-push-for-safestanding-trials-8626274.html

"At a meeting of Championship clubs in Leicester in February, 21 of the 22 chief executives present voted in favour of a motion proposing the Football League "encourage and support the instigation of a rail seat/safe-standing trial period at any League club". Middlesbrough are understood to have been the only club to vote against."

[Guest Col city fan]

Was on SSN this morning that the Premier League clubs are now going to consider safe-standing.

Can see this happening before too long..

[C-man]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/exclusive-championship-clubs-set-to-push-for-safestanding-trials-8626274.html

"At a meeting of Championship clubs in Leicester in February, 21 of the 22 chief executives present voted in favour of a motion proposing the Football League "encourage and support the instigation of a rail seat/safe-standing trial period at any League club". Middlesbrough are understood to have been the only club to vote against."

 

I assume that given we hosted it, Susan Whelan was present and is therefore in favour. Brilliant news and well done LCFC.

[goose2010]

quite interesting article on sky sports this morning 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11688/8727301/Championship-clubs-back-campaign-to-allow-standing-at-football-grounds

 

looks like it could happen finally......

[Father Ted]

Excellent news but won't believe that LCFC have backed it until I see their name added to the 24-team list.

[indierich06]

Excellent news but won't believe that LCFC have backed it until I see their name added to the 24-team list.

 

The article says that out of all the Championship clubs, Middlesbrough was the only one to oppose it?

[Harry - LCFC]

With respect, the Hillsborough group is getting in the way here.

 

I realise they're upset but they're allowing themselves to be blinded by past events and aren't actually assessing the merits of Safe Standing. Unfortunately it would appear their voice is valued more than the majority's because of the tragedy they have experienced - sadly this debate is not being carried out democratically. They'll probably remain a considerable obstacle for a long time.

[Harry - LCFC]

The article says that out of all the Championship clubs, Middlesbrough was the only one to oppose it?

 

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/84921-brighton-say-no-to-safe-standing/?hl=%2Bsafe+%2Bstanding

 

Brighton declined to back it a while ago.

 

EDIT: Perhaps they've changed their stance since then, I don't know.

Edited 22 May 2013 by Harry - LCFC

[indierich06]

With respect, the Hillsborough group is getting in the way here.

 

I realise they're upset but they're allowing themselves to be blinded by past events and aren't actually assessing the merits of Safe Standing. Unfortunately it would appear their voice is valued more than the majority's because of the tragedy they have experienced - sadly this debate is not being carried out democratically. They'll probably remain a considerable obstacle for a long time.

 

Ironically, safe standing would completely stop any kind of repeat of Hillsborough ever happening again.

[Harry - LCFC]

Ironically, safe standing would completely stop any kind of repeat of Hillsborough ever happening again.

 

Indeed. People will continue to stand at football matches regardless of how they're accommodated.

 

It makes a great deal of sense to provide the standers with safer areas to watch.