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purpleronnie

Safe Standing - Support the Early Day motion

By purpleronnie, in Leicester City Forum

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Robo61

Robo61

Posted
Posted

Trouble makers will cause trouble if they're sat down or if they're stood up. That West Midlands police officer absolutely nailed it with his argument.

 

I'm sorry but these politicians who are against it are doing it because of plain ignorance and nothing else. There is not a single proper argument against it.

Really so how do you explain :1) That almost all trouble in the 70s/80s was caused by people who were in standing area's  2)  the immediate reduction of acts of hooliganism following the introduction of all seater stadia.

 

Largely trouble makers are cowards and are therefore happy to disrupt others of there are no consequences to them.  In old style terraces that was largely the case as individually they were anonymous.  Having them in seats makes them significantly more identifiable by the authorities and therefore have to suffer the consequences (arrest).   I am not saying that this cannot be the case with safe standing but that the authorities need to be convinced that this is the case.

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Dan LCFC

Dan LCFC

Posted
Posted

Really so how do you explain :1) That almost all trouble in the 70s/80s was caused by people who were in standing area's  2)  the immediate reduction of acts of hooliganism following the introduction of all seater stadia.

 

Largely trouble makers are cowards and are therefore happy to disrupt others of there are no consequences to them.  In old style terraces that was largely the case as individually they were anonymous.  Having them in seats makes them significantly more identifiable by the authorities and therefore have to suffer the consequences (arrest).   I am not saying that this cannot be the case with safe standing but that the authorities need to be convinced that this is the case.

 

1. The fact that hooliganism was a problem and they were harder to control in poorly designed terraces. The fact it was the in-thing at the time.

 

2. The 'fad' dying and a tougher stance on troublemakers.

 

Whilst I'm not disputing your facts are true, I'm not yet convinced there's a direct correlation between the fact they were stood up and the fact they cause trouble. Safe standing is a development from seating and categorically IS NOT terracing.

 

Even if trouble grows - catch the troublemakers and punish them accordingly to stop it happening again. That'll do more to deter it than retaining seated areas.

 

When I went to Germany, there was some violence. Outside a pub, one set of fans attacked another (although I think both of the groups involved were looking for it), but in my opinion, the vast minority and their antics (and it remains a vast minority in seats, or in standing areas) shouldn't spoil the overall experience for the vast majority, when the surveys quite clearly suggest that the vast majority would like the choice whether to be standing or seated.

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Lobsterboyuk

Lobsterboyuk

Posted
Posted

I will start my saying that I am fully in favour of the re-introduction of standing at football grounds not because I myself wish to stand particularly,  but because I recognise that plenty of fans do.    However if any progress is to be made campaigners need to understand that politicians will need to be persuaded that not only can standing be safe but that it would at the least not hinder security (i.e. not an aid to those that wish to cause trouble).  As it they that will get the blame from the voting public if its re-introduction  was to lead us back to the dark days of 70's/80's style hooliganism.  

 

Standing has continued uninterrupted since 93 with a tiny number of incidents in persistent standing areas. Politicians should be legislating based on transparent factual debates, not the output of murky quangos (SGSA) formed off the back of a gross travesty of justice at the highest levels (hilsborough)  by the very people who also populate the SGSA

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1964FOX

1964FOX

Posted
Posted

Thousands of us stand safely every week, if I decided to go to the tigers I could stand and drink as much beer as I wanted on a terrace. The fear is still clearly that standing areas would be a catalyst for trouble, nobody in their right mind can still use the safety argument as it is clearly not a safety issue.

However, it's moving on and I still believe it will happen soon, rail seating is on it's way.

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AndWhat?

AndWhat?

Posted
Posted

I can't read all that cause I'm at work and I only quickly clicked on it but does the first guy say he doesn't want safe standing he wants safer seating to stand in front of??

That makes no sense what so ever.

Ok bare with me here......

This is how that seems in my head:

Sitting down at football 100% safe

SAFE standing 80 % safe

Standing in front of your seat 60% safe

Old style terrace 40% safe

How the **** is standing in front of a 'safer' seat better than safe standing????

This topic genuinely makes my blood boil.

That'll teach me for commenting on something after reading 2 lines! lol

Just read all of that and that woman made no sense what so ever. It is infuriating the way this is being dealt with.

There is not 1 single ****ing argument that shows that standing in a seated area is safer or less manageable than standing in a rail seated area.

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C-man

C-man

Posted
Posted (edited)

Really so how do you explain :1) That almost all trouble in the 70s/80s was caused by people who were in standing area's 2) the immediate reduction of acts of hooliganism following the introduction of all seater stadia.

Largely trouble makers are cowards and are therefore happy to disrupt others of there are no consequences to them. In old style terraces that was largely the case as individually they were anonymous. Having them in seats makes them significantly more identifiable by the authorities and therefore have to suffer the consequences (arrest). I am not saying that this cannot be the case with safe standing but that the authorities need to be convinced that this is the case.

You are absolutely correct in saying the authorities need to be convinced. But the overwhelming problem here is that they are utterly incapable of listening to every reasoned argument under the sun. They are the political equivalent of kids putting their hands over their ears and shouting 'lalalalalalala' when they're being told to go to bed. It's embarrassing.

Your two points above can be easily explained:

1) Seating areas were largely uncommon - they need to be there to fight in them. This isn't to say violence never occurred in seated areas though. Look at Luton - Millwall circa '85! That's the same as me saying there's no trouble in standing areas these days.

2) As DanLCFC states, the 'fad' largely died as a result of more serious punishments being dished out but more importantly the exponential improvement in surveillance technology nationwide.

Surveillance and security can even be improved with safe standing - there's a bloody bar on every row! Would love to see a trouble making fan attempt to do a runner with them there.

Besides, I find the apparent notion that putting me and others in a safe standing area would turn us into hooligans remarkably offensive. What other set of human beings can be discussed in this way by people in public office who just get away with it? It's a fvcking joke.

Edited by C-man
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Union FS

Union FS

Posted
Posted

Evening all.

 

We found the Minister's response to John Leech MP's incredibly frustrating. We have tonight released our thoughts on the matter and they can be found here.

 

Please do let us know your thoughts as we imagine many of you will agree but maybe some of you won't! :)

 

And as always, get in touch if you would like to either join us or meet with us on 29 December prior to the Bolton game.

 

Thank you for your support

 

Union FS

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goose2010

goose2010

Posted
Posted

I love the idea of safe standing but I cant see it ever happening in the UK because ever time it is mention in a report on the news pictures of Hillsborough are shown. Peoples views will be tarnished by this and it doesn't matter if they then go on to explain the difference. I honestly don't think if enough people will get it if that makes sense. I hope they do something but I just cant see it happening. Unless some one is bold and puts a section in a NEW stadium I cant see anyone converting an old one.

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AndWhat?

AndWhat?

Posted
Posted (edited)

Evening all.

We found the Minister's response to John Leech MP's incredibly frustrating. We have tonight released our thoughts on the matter and they can be found here.

Please do let us know your thoughts as we imagine many of you will agree but maybe some of you won't! :)

And as always, get in touch if you would like to either join us or meet with us on 29 December prior to the Bolton game.

Thank you for your support

Union FS

This article just got tweeted by the FSF. Fair play. Edited by AndWhat?
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Harry - LCFC

Harry - LCFC

Posted
Posted

If people started calling it rail seating instead of safe standing, they might get somewhere with this.

 

Agree with you there.

 

The BBC article starts off with the words "standing could make a permanent return," while that isn't an incorrect statement to make it is misleading. Someone could read that and believe that the old-style terraces were being reintroduced when that isn't the case at all.

 

It frustrates me every time I see an article talking about a 'returning' to what we had before. Rail seating is very much a forward step for football, not a backward one. Yes, standing is being brought back but in a new and improved way which needs to be pointed out.

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tartanowl

tartanowl

Posted
Posted

I think clubs like Leicester will get the opportunity to change back to standing. I hope fans get a choice because it is safe and it makes the game much more enjoyable and atmospheric. Sadly of all clubs we will never get that opportunity to re-introduce it. And that's despite the number of Liverpool fans that stand at home and away fixtures currently in seated areas.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted

I think clubs like Leicester will get the opportunity to change back to standing. I hope fans get a choice because it is safe and it makes the game much more enjoyable and atmospheric. Sadly of all clubs we will never get that opportunity to re-introduce it. And that's despite the number of Liverpool fans that stand at home and away fixtures currently in seated areas.

I think the muppets in H&S would have a heart attack just thinking of standing in any form.

Even if it was allowed we'd get a response like it would cost too much and isn't suited to the architectural style or some silly shite like that.

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