The Bioshock Series Spoilers Thread.

[Finnegan]

If you read beyond this point and you haven't finished both Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite you're not only an idiot but you forfeit any right to complain we ruined it for you.

***

I had to start a new thread because I didn't want to ruin the games for anyone in the other thread but what an unbelievable ending to Infinite. I felt the twist in Bioshock was slightly more "clever" in the sense that the format of linear computer game play forced you to conform to Would You Kindly? in such a fitting way. The fact you were Ryan's clone/son was less important than the fact you'd been literally controlled the whole way through.

Infinite may have thrown up something similar in implying you were always destined to do what you were going to do but that's a somewhat less creative way of using the mechanics of gaming to almost pull you through the fourth wall.

Stunning last fifteen minutes though and anyone who skipped the credits make sure you watch this:

As it's fairly essentially for turning a pretty miserable ending in to an uplifting one.

Not that that's important for some people but there you are. Though, the fact that the "original" Elizabeth doesn't fade out at the end largely implies that somewhere her original Booker De Witt must survive (else all of the Annas / Elizabeths would also cease to have ever existed.)

Really has given me a case of the Donnie Darkos, though, I'll be trying to get my brain around all the little details of this one for some time and all the implications though I reckon I'm pretty much sussed.

I did also find this which is well worth a read and I hope Irrational give it an official response at some point:

I’ve had a blast the past few days reading through the hundreds of comments on this post. In it, I spent 3,000 words discussing the mind-bending ending of the BioShock Infinite, and readers spent thousands more giving their own opinions on all the events that unfold in the finale.

There are discussions of metaphysics and time travel and multiverse theory and all sorts of things buried there. I highly suggest that you take a look at the full thread and learn a thing or two about the ending of the game people will be talking about for years.

There are many theories put forward that I could highlight, but there’s one in particular I wanted to focus on in a follow-up post. I haven’t had this much fun debating the end of a game since Mass Effect 3′s Indoctrination Theory, but this twist I believe was put in there on purpose, and is more than just a fan theory.

Here’s where the spoilers officially begin.

Many crazy things happen at the end of BioShock Infinite, but the final mind-warping sequence is kicked off by a surprise trip to Rapture, the underwater city from the original game.

While I was playing through BioShock Infinite, I thought it was strange that there were literally no references to Rapture or Andrew Ryan at all. Like, zero. Even if it wasn’t integrated into the plot, I thought perhaps I’d at least find a newspaper clipping lying around talking about that “other†unbelievable city, or some passing mention of a rivalry between Ryan and Comstock or something.

When you get to Rapture, Elizabeth explains it by saying it’s another possible universe. Okay, I thought, we’re simply playing in a different game universe accessed via lighthouse, and didn’t really think about it much past that.

What I failed to realize is what she really meant. That Rapture, and really all the events of the original BioShock are direct, alternate parallels of everything that happens in BioShock Infinite, right down to the characters themselves.

The proof that can’t be overlooked? In the original BioShock, it’s made expressly clear that only Andrew Ryan himself can operate the Bathyspheres in the city once they’re on lockdown. Part of the twist of that game as that you can also operate them, and you eventually discover than you, as Jack, are Andrew Ryan’s illegitimate son (or probable clone) which allows you to use them yourself.

In Infinite, you’re operating them once again.

The implication here is that DeWitt/Comstock is Jack/Andrew Ryan. Both was some version of the other, who goes on to kill their elder who has created a massive city as a tribute to their own ego. I even think that they do it the same way too. We are explicitly told that Booker enters Columbia from a parallel universe via the lighthouse, but we have to remember that Jack did the same thing. By entering through a lighthouse, that would also indicate he’s coming from another universe as well, right? Perhaps his plane crashed through a tear?

What else do we have if Jack is Booker and Andrew Ryan is Comstock? Well, we have the obvious idea that Rapture is Columbia, sunk under the ocean instead of floating above it. In this universe, things get a bit wonky, but the comparisons are still clear. Plasmids are Vigors, EVE is Salts. Taking it a step further, Atlas/Fontaine is Daisy Fitzroy, the blood thirsty working class hero/eventual psychopath who challenges Ryan/Comstock and leads to Rapture/Columbia’s downfall.

Dr. Lutece is Dr. Tenenbaum, looking after the little girls with magic powers. That would make Little Sisters fractured versions of Elizabeth, looked after by a multitude of Big Daddies, all condensed into the massive Songbird in Columbia. The brown hair, the nearly identically arranged blue and white clothes. It’s now impossible for me not to see Elizabeth in the Little Sisters. Their eyes are glowing yellow, but if I bet if that light faded, you’d see a sparkling pair of blue eyes staring back at you.

It all lines up almost perfectly, but is still hidden enough where most people (myself included) might not realize the full extent of the crossover until days later. It’s too well arranged not to have been crafted on purpose. Look at Elizabeth next to that Little Sister! How is something so obvious, yet so subtle at the same time? Well, because most of us were attempting to untangle the events of Infinite alone, a monumental task in itself. There really wasn’t time to make all these connections in the moment.

Many thanks to a few commenters for pointing out the Bathysphere genetic code item, which led to me attempting to unravel the rest of the parallels. I highly doubt I’m the first to do so, but if I can help blow some minds by spreading the theory, that works for me.

So, am I crazy or is this yet another purposefully planted piece of the already masterful plot?

Now for the new question. What happened in Ryan/Booker’s life to spawn the creator of Rapture over Columbia? Is there even a knowable answer to that?

If it truly was deliberate then that's absolutely mindblowing story telling.

If Trav has the audacity to come in here and complain or suggest System Shock was better then I'm actually going to work out where he works and buy the entire block rotweillers.

[MrSpaM]

The way i see it is that Booker is actually Andrew Ryan from the original game, just in that world rapture was created instead of Columbia. It does kinda make sense. The give away is that Elizabeth is wearing the same costume at the end of the game is the same as the one the little sisters are wearing in the first game.

[Finnegan]

That's, sort of, what the guy is saying in the quote above.

OUR De Witt can't literally BE Ryan just as OUR De Witt isn't literally Comstock, but obviously one possible De Witt can be Jack/Ryan.

[Manwell Pablo]

That's, sort of, what the guy is saying in the quote above.

OUR De Witt can't literally BE Ryan just as OUR De Witt isn't literally Comstock, but obviously one possible De Witt can be Jack/Ryan.

Just finished it.

Typed a load of crap out and I could just go on forever, it's clever, but I can see why the game was given the tag "infinite" and it's not necessarily a good thing. In someways it's lazy story telling IMO the techniques the game uses to confuse and make you think have been used before.

It was a good ending but I was expecting a bit more given it was supposed to be ground breaking. At the end of the day it is is saying is there are a infinite number of dimensions and a infinite number of things can happen, and we can't really be arsed to give this game a proper ending so make your own mind up how it ends, well thanks for that.

[CloudFox]

It's an amazing end to a game, and fantastic storytelling too. I love the explanations for why Vigors exist in Columbia and why Elizabeth can open tears too. Very clever stuff. A really great article is here too: http://www.gamasutra...e_Narrative.php

I think another aspect which I was fascinated by was Ken Levine explaining his reasoning for the various little choices you get to make throughout the game, such as throwing the baseball at the couple or the guy on the stage, or which necklace design you chose for Elizabeth. He effectively challenged the idea that although these decisions do not make a direct impact on the game's story or content, it DOES have an impact on the player, because you are being forced to make moral choices that make you think, and since you expect in this gaming age for these decisions to have impact, they really do reflect real-life moral choices (i.e. because, like in real-life situations, you believe that your actions have consequences). Effectively, this game not only immerses you in its story, but does what any great piece of art does: it leaves a lasting impact.

Just a brilliantly conceived story and game, to be honest.

In my opinion, of course.

[ADK]

I love how the fact the same developer keeps churning out exactly the same game with different art every few years gets turned into "amazing storytelling!!!". Maybe there are similarities because they keep rehashing the same stuff all the time. Its not hard for one linear rail shooter to look like another. Chuck in every single science fiction cliche in the book and a poorly explained story and let people join the dots.

[MrSpaM]

I love how the fact the same developer keeps churning out exactly the same game with different art every few years gets turned into "amazing storytelling!!!". Maybe there are similarities because they keep rehashing the same stuff all the time. Its not hard for one linear rail shooter to look like another. Chuck in every single science fiction cliche in the book and a poorly explained story and let people join the dots.

The story is nothing like the other two?

[The God Emperor]

I love how the fact the same developer keeps churning out exactly the same game with different art every few years gets turned into "amazing storytelling!!!". Maybe there are similarities because they keep rehashing the same stuff all the time. Its not hard for one linear rail shooter to look like another. Chuck in every single science fiction cliche in the book and a poorly explained story and let people join the dots.

I agree, I saw a mate play this game and didn't live up to the hype or even the previous Bioshock. every review just talks about the setting and story not the actual game part of it which is a series of arena fights which bad game mechanics.

in the the original bioshock you could build a reasonable different character each time you played due to varying plasmids and gene tonics, I even managed to make a silent assasin once.

by the sounds of it the game would have been much better as a adventure game where you experience columbia and solve puzzles and stuff without having to trawl through boring and poorly executed filler combat.

[Finnegan]

Ugh, puzzles, no.

I agree it's not particularly challenging as an FPS but then if that's what you're after I'd suggest it's not the right game.

[The God Emperor]

Ugh, puzzles, no.

I agree it's not particularly challenging as an FPS but then if that's what you're after I'd suggest it's not the right game.

well maybe not puzzles but the game should have been more adventurey rather than a shooter. everyone seems to go on about how great the setting is but you only really see columbia as it is in the first level. the shooting is 90% of the game and its the weakest part, the setting was interesting so they should have made more of it. I do think the whole tears thing could have been used to make some interesting puzzles though.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Just finished it. The Kennel Club are going to love you Finners.

 

I'll post my thoughts in a bit - amazing ending though - blew my mind!

[Trav Le Bleu]

Right then. Firstly, to anyone saying that the story was clichéd because it was so similar to Bioshock - well obviously. If it wasn't then there would be no point giving it the Bioshock title. It's all very clever and takes a stricit rigidity to make it work,  is much harder than inventing a new mythology, due to the attention to detail that needs to be applied to not deviating from canon that some game players pay so much attention to (they will notice!) Also, of course the story has been done before! It's called the Monomyth (ironically a phrase invented in Finnegan's Wake) which only has 17 variations that all heroic stories follow (usually including a few in the course of the story). SInce there are far more than 17 heroic stories (and indeed, games) of course you've seen something similar before. As far as the Comstock/DeWitt, Ryan/Ryan thing, that's an allusion to the theory of The Hero With A Thousand Faces, whereby the same stories are more or less played out with very slight variation through history.

 

The key is not so much the plot but the skill of telling it, of making you care about the characters, the embellishment. The game really does this. Why did I care about Elizabeth so much (even though no harm can come to her!)? Why did I miss her and want to get her back so much when Songbird took her to Comstock? Because the story was well told even if I was recognising the parallels as I went along - I thought it was in no small part genius.

 

As for the game itself, I loved skyhooking around the place and I must have missed stuff, cos I didn't get everything, but I can't think where, cos I turned Columbia upside down! It was interesting to arrive in Columbia and find it still functional (in contrast to Rapture) But for some reason I played it quite differently to Bioshock, where I spliced myself to heck and was rarely using weapons. In this I was using weapons probably 80% of the time and using the vigours as support. I think this may be due to the fact that you couldn't use the vigours from the skyhooks. Also the costume parts, once I had my initial costume parts I think I only changed them once or twice, as I progressed they seemed to get increasingly less useful - but that was maybe just me. The end battle was refreshingly different from your traditional single boss battle (though it was still essentially King of the Hill - but hey, I'll take you back to my initial point of limited number of scenarios) and somewhat tougher than Bioshock (which I aced first time of asking - which I don't think I've ever done in any game.) though maybe if I'd used the same path of powering up my powers rather than my weapons it might have been different...

 

Finally, better than Bioshock? Yep, I think so. Better than System Shock II (get it right Finners! )? Story wise you could again hint at the monomyth - all 3 have very similar stories - and storywise it's hard to choose between the three, but I still stand by SS2 in that it allows you to vary your game playing experience the most by the way you play it and therefore, each game in it's own time, SS2 is still my favourite. Clearly the Bioshock's are superior in many ways due to technical advances, but SS2 will always have a special place in my heart - aside from being the scariest game I ever played.

[I am Rod Hull]

I agree with Trav 

 

But just for the record, Bioshock Infinite - Great game with a mind-blowing end..

[Finnegan]

As I'm sure you're alluding to there, it's only really sentiment that has you favouring System Shock 2. It's never better in a billion years, better technology and the evolution of games has in many ways enabled better story telling as well as just base things like graphics and game play. 

 

But I'll give you your nostalgia and will spare you the hounds.

[Trav Le Bleu]

As I'm sure you're alluding to there, it's only really sentiment that has you favouring System Shock 2. It's never better in a billion years, better technology and the evolution of games has in many ways enabled better story telling as well as just base things like graphics and game play. 

 

But I'll give you your nostalgia and will spare you the hounds.

 

When you're as old as me you'll understand. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Preferred Bioshock myself, because of the philosophical and political views behind the rise and downfall of Rapture and that stunning scene in Andrew Ryan's office!

A SLAVE OBEYS!

[Trav Le Bleu]

Just finished Bioshock 2 (I know, weird order (like the i and the e in weird)) and wishing I'd played it long ago, but it got me thinking...

 

video game storylines vs movie storylines.

 

I've recently played the last two Bioshocks, The Last Of Us, Skyrim, then there's games like Fallout, GTA, Beyond Good and Evil, Shadow of the Colossus. I love the stories in these games and there so few movies I see that really grab me as much as they do.

 

So why so many crap movie/game tie-ins?

[Finnegan]

Because games made for movies are made lazily on the cheap as money spinners and films made for games are cheap, B-movies because the cultural elite don't give games much credibility when it comes to storytelling.

Hopefully the like of Last Of Us and Skyoshock represent a change in that.

[Legend_in_blue]

I am not reading any of the spoilers above as I am currently working through Infinite but I have to say the "save feature" of this game is currently spoiling it for me, the reason I am here.

Good game it may be, but this save system is atrocious.

Bioshock let you save where you want, this saves at silly checkpoints and for some reason, I go back into it again today and I've lost 30 minutes of patient game time. I am taking my time, don't want to miss a thing.

Made it up to the snipers last night and now I'm right back at the start of soldiers field.

Not pleased.